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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Who was being unreasonable - vegetarian or host?

999 replies

neverendingflorist · 11/06/2019 14:16

Going to try and keep this as short as possible.

Person A invited a group of people over for dinner, including person B who is a vegetarian. A didn't know B was a vegetarian at the time, but B let A know when accepting the invite. A said this was fine. A made lasagna for everyone for dinner, subbing the meat out for roasted veggies for B to make a separate dish. When dinner came round A explained to B what she had made for her and explained what it contained including parmesan cheese. B said sorry, she could not eat it as parmesan is not vegetarian. A said B should have really told her she could not eat parmesan as A thought vegetarians could eat cheese and wouldn't be expected to know these things as she hasn't cooked for vegetarians before. B said lots of things are not vegetarian that aren't just meat/fish and it would take forever to make a list of all things including which cheeses she could/couldn't eat. A thinks B has been very rude and B thinks A has been a poor host.

So who was being unreasonable? I am aware this is pretty much a non-event and should not have escalated in to a big disagreement, but I am interested on general opinions.

OP posts:

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Mothership4two · 12/06/2019 23:44

It was just a mistake and neither was unreasonable. The unreasonable part is blaming each other for being unreasonable!

There's a few comments about B being a strict vegetarian, no that's a vegan. Also if you eat Parmesan (which always contains rennet) then you are not a vegetarian.

I have been a vegetarian for over 30 years, so no I wouldnt have eaten it just for the sake of politeness, but would have been very apologetic and asked if I could perhaps make myself a sandwich or something else. I also don't give a list of what is vegetarian and acceptable before I go to a dinner party - I would feel a bit of a twat doing that! If I knew I was having a pasta dish, I might mention Parmesan though. I have had to skip puddings a couple of times because there was gelatine in it.

I have seen Parmesan dishes listed as vegetarian in restaurants, so it must be a common mistake.

carla1983 · 13/06/2019 00:40

B was rude and should have explained they can't eat rennet and explained what contains it

LimeKiwi · 13/06/2019 00:43

That sounds like DH, he'd rather die than make a fuss
As if you'd go with a list of what you can and can't eat to your hosts lol, it'd go on forever.
Being a now vegan it's even worse for him than veggies.
He'd ask to make a sandwich too - although come to think of it he wouldn't even do that and would say "I'm fine, don't worry about me" all smiles but be all hungry inside lol

Vivianebrookskoviak · 13/06/2019 01:04

Another vegetarian here.

The vegetarian is being unreasonable and downright rude.Most meat eaters would not know that some cheeses including parmesan are not vegetarian,in fact a lot of vegetarians wouldn't either. She should have just said she was vegan or didn't eat cheese. She can't expect the host to know the ins and outs of a vegetarian diet if she's never cooked for one before and as for it taking forever to make a list well what can the host cook then????? Just for that attitude I would have said two slices of bread and a plate of vegetables it is then and an apple for dessert.

The host tried to accommodate her and gets that!

The host hasnt done anything wrong imho.

SoMuchFluff · 13/06/2019 01:04

I have only read the first 21 pages and have now skipped to the end so apologies if I've missed something.

This is the most ridiculous thread I've read in a long time

Person B pointed out that a non vegetarian meal was indeed not vegetarian. The Mumsnet conclusion is that person B is wrong and shouldn't be invited to dinner again! FFS, neither are U, person A made a mistake so should be a bit apologetic, that's about it.

Did A get into a huff because someone who they knew was vegetarian was only willing to eat vegetarian food? Seriously, this actually happened between adults?

mathanxiety · 13/06/2019 01:12

But you've only read 21 pages SoMuchFluff - how do you know it's the most ridiculous thread you've read if you haven't rtft?

LimeKiwi · 13/06/2019 01:25

I'm still intrigued as to what breads have gelatine in!
Never heard of that before and I'm a label checker due to the vegan and me also being an allergy person.
Quick somebody give me a link to one before the thread closes lol

Mothership4two · 13/06/2019 02:07

@LimeKiwi

www.peta.org/living/food/is-bread-vegan/

FionasWineShow · 13/06/2019 02:44

the host knew the guest was vegetarian.

And to most omnivores, that means 'no meat'. A didn't serve up any meat.

This thread is painful.

mathanxiety · 13/06/2019 02:45

In my book it would be quite rude to ask a hostess if I could make myself a sandwich in her kitchen, which would involve looking through her fridge for ingredients, looking in her cutlery drawer for a knife, looking for the bread knife and bread board, maybe coming back after all that empty handed because everything in the kitchen was non-vegetarian - maybe even the bread has gelatine in it - and making the hostess feel doubly horrible and inadequate as you sit there not eating, or coming back with a sandwich to eat at the table, while the rest of the guests are tucking in to the dish she prepared with you in mind.

I would also consider it really rude to let your feelings of mortification about telling the hostess what you can and can't eat cause a situation where she was embarrassed or made to look like an uncaring ignoramus or poor hostess in front of her guests, after expending effort and money on a meal.

You are essentially saying that your feelings are more important than your hostess' feelings and time here, and it's ok for her to waste her time and effort on a meal for you if you don't feel like getting over yourself and providing a proper list that would make her task easier and help her provide a nice dinner for everyone.

FionasWineShow · 13/06/2019 03:14

Totally agree math.

SURELY it's easier to say, 'I'm vegetarian, and by that, I mean a strict vegetarian. That means I also can't eat cheese with rennet in it, such as Parmesan, and also [x, y, z that will not be obvious to most omnivores]'...

...than turn up, and not be able to eat what the host has gone to the time, effort and expense of making...?

Hally2020 · 13/06/2019 04:11

I am a veggie and I would have just said thank you for making the effort but would you mind if I scraped the cheese off as it wasn't vegetarian. Adding that I should have helped with recipe ideas more.

Sasstal67 · 13/06/2019 04:26

It's very simple, A should have emailed B with the menu, so B could have flagged up any obvious issues with the usual ingredients used, such as mince and parmesan. It saves embarrassment on both sides.

The last time I went to a wedding I let the bride know I was vegetarian and also asked what the non meat alternative was, just in case of such issues arising. I couldn't get a firm answer but was assured it was all in hand and the meal would definitely be veggie. On the day I was left deeply embarrassed, sat at the table picking at a bread roll, while the waiting staff took the fish I'd been presented with back to the kitchen. The server had even tried to argue that fish was okay as it's not "meat" (finger gestures included). I replied that anything with a pulse or a face was a no no for a vegetarian. Awkward as hell.

FionasWineShow · 13/06/2019 04:30

It's clearly not very simple, Sasstal67.

A planned to make a vegetable lasagne. It didn't have any meat in it.

Most omnivores think vegetarians only avoid meat. So why would A have emailed the menu...?

martinidry · 13/06/2019 04:43

Neither person was in the wrong. The host made a mistake, that's all.

The people saying that B should have eaten cheese with calf rennet don't understand what a vegetarian is and the people who're saying that they are vegetarian and they'd have eaten the calf rennet aren't vegetarian!

LaMarschallin · 13/06/2019 05:56

I replied that anything with a pulse

Like lentil soup?

Sorry. This thread has made me lose my (already tenuous) grip.

I'll get my coat.

(At least it's inspired me to find out the history behind "cancel the cheque". Surely "just read the label" could be an acceptable alternative)

Faithless12 · 13/06/2019 07:03

@mathanxiety it’s obvious many people haven’t read the thread for example the amount of people coming in at page 30 odd saying “she should have told the host she was vegan”.

FamilyOfAliens · 13/06/2019 07:07

Just for that attitude I would have said two slices of bread and a plate of vegetables it is then and an apple for dessert.

Don’t you sound lovely

Frusty · 13/06/2019 07:14

The link about bread doesn’t mention anything about gelatine ffs. Bread may not be vegan if it has butter or eggs in it (brioche for example) but those ingredients are still vegetarian. What purpose would the gelatine serve in bread making?

LimeKiwi · 13/06/2019 07:24

(At least it's inspired me to find out the history behind "cancel the cheque". Surely "just read the label" could be an acceptable alternative)

Well no, that's the point - it's not always ON the label!

How would you know parmesan wasn't animal rennet/cows stomach?
If you don't know, you don't know.

LimeKiwi · 13/06/2019 07:40

was animal rennet/cows stomach, not wasn't FFS!

IcelandicYoghurt · 13/06/2019 07:45

You are essentially saying that your feelings are more important than your hostess' feelings and time here

No, B was saying that the calf's life was more important than the hostesses feelings and time. And there's nothing to suggest B was rude about it.

People seem to find it very difficult to understand that others have a different (but none the less valid) value system to their own. Personally I would have just eaten the lasagne (not because I consider it to be vegetarian, it's clearly not, but because rightly or wrongly I value keeping the peace and not kicking up a fuss higher than my principles about not eating calf stomach). I know plenty of vegetarians who would politely tell the host that they are very sorry but they can't eat it. It would be embarrassing for them, and they wouldn't enjoy doing it, but it wouldn't involve going against their principles; so for them it would be the least worst option. I would totally respect them for making that decision.

LaMarschallin · 13/06/2019 07:51

@LimeKiwi

Well no, that's thepoint- it's not always ON the label!

I KNOW!!!!

Ahem. Sorry.

I understood "cancel the cheque" to mean that people hadn't RTFT because they kept posting that advice looooong after the cheque had been cancelled.
People here keep saying "read the label" when it's been pointed out - a really, really lot - by people, including me, that it is not - as you so correctly say - on the label.

I would add except I think they look like creepy skulls.
So just:

MaximusHeadroom · 13/06/2019 07:52

I'm vegan and often people serve me things they don't realise aren't vegan.

I wouldn't eat it because I am strict on my diet but I certainly wouldn't think my host was bad for not knowing. A lot of food isn't veggie or vegan that you wouldn't expect. The veggie guest can't provide a list of everything they can't eat as it would be massive.

I always bring a contribution to a meal (I am a bit of a baker so usually some speciality bread) so if I can't eat the main meal I don't go hungry and nobody is embarassed. It also means they get to try vegan food if they want to.

I would have been really touched that the host went to the trouble of making the whole meal to accommodate me rather than just giving me something else, even if it didn't work out

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