Who was being unreasonable - vegetarian or host?

[neverendingflorist]

Going to try and keep this as short as possible.

Person A invited a group of people over for dinner, including person B who is a vegetarian. A didn't know B was a vegetarian at the time, but B let A know when accepting the invite. A said this was fine. A made lasagna for everyone for dinner, subbing the meat out for roasted veggies for B to make a separate dish. When dinner came round A explained to B what she had made for her and explained what it contained including parmesan cheese. B said sorry, she could not eat it as parmesan is not vegetarian. A said B should have really told her she could not eat parmesan as A thought vegetarians could eat cheese and wouldn't be expected to know these things as she hasn't cooked for vegetarians before. B said lots of things are not vegetarian that aren't just meat/fish and it would take forever to make a list of all things including which cheeses she could/couldn't eat. A thinks B has been very rude and B thinks A has been a poor host.

So who was being unreasonable? I am aware this is pretty much a non-event and should not have escalated in to a big disagreement, but I am interested on general opinions.

“Fair enough, but I'd have eaten a bit just to show I appreciated her efforts”

Couldn’t you use your words?

@threatmatrix Parmesan is not vegetarian as has been explained for 30 odd pages.

I’ve known this since I was 13 and have grown up in a very omnivore house, having never been vegetarian. TBH I don’t see why you couldn’t check. I have vegan friends and manage to not meat/meat product them very successfully granted I normally just cook a vegan meal for everyone as keeping track of which spoon has been in the meat dish etc is far too much effort. If there are some really tricky customers ie meat eaters who can’t forgo meat for one meal. I cook it completely separately.

🤦‍♀️

I refer to myself as a vegetarian because I don’t eat meat (I do not like the taste or texture). I think B was being very rude not eating it. I ear Parmesan because it doesn’t taste of meat.

Unless you cook for vegetarians on a regular basis, it is not reasonable to assume you know what vegetarians like and dislike or approve of.

I would have responded with “thanks for the invite, just to let you know I’m a strict vegetarian - I don’t eat any animal products and this includes some cheeses and biscuits, etc. Can I supply some of my favourite ingredients?” When I reply to an invite I always let my host know that I can’t eat meat substitutes like Quorn because it’s the taste bad texture I don’t like.

Simples!

I’d be chuffed to receive an invite and receive a homemade meal that compliments the one served to the rest of the guests. My biggest bugbear is “British” food restaurants - Christmas dinner is pasta or stir fry while everybody digs into my most favourite veggies!!

Tbf they didn't need to make a list, the host could have quite easily turned the packet over and read the back

FFS, just eat the salad or bread or something if you 'can't' eat the main bit

What a fuss people make about food, it's just one bloody meal

So @Catwaving, would you have been happy if the host had gone for the easy option and served just bread and salad for dinner? After all, it’s just one bloody meal ...

Also all the people thinking B was rude have really never had a rude guest. I once cooked a meal for a veggie ‘friend’ of DPs for them to say I don’t eat vegetables.

Was it veggie parmesan? Looks the same and tastes the same. We buy it all the time. In Sainsbury its called Italian Hard Cheese

It's a mistake to assume that just because you know something, that means that everyone knows it - or that they should know it - and a tad unreasonable to think that they should know to check just in case there's something they don't know.

Given that it turns out that people that term themselves vegetarian (although they are insufficiently vegetarian to be deemed such according to others who identify as vegetarian on here), who didn't know about parmesan and rennet, it seems fair to accept that this isn't quite such a universal piece of knowledge as some think. I guess we've all learned something today, then. . .

@BertrandRussell

Yes, I could've said "Sorry friend, you've spent two hours cooking us a special meal so we could experience a dish from your home country, but I hate aubergines so I'm not going to eat a bite."

I think that would be rude.

@JustOneShadeOfGrey you’ve just said you aren’t vegetarian and then said you’d eat Parmesan as it doesn’t taste like meat. That’s great but you point is as pointless as me saying as an omnivore I eat Parmesan and then expecting my vegetarian friend to eat a meal with Parmesan and chicken stock cubes in it as “it doesn’t taste like meat”.

If I was A I probably would have said no problem I’m making X is that okay? I would always say double check with dietary requirements but neither is being unreasonable the main u reasonable part is the fall out over this!

It was just one of those things which shouldn't even cause an argument about who is tight or wrong. The whole point of the meal together is to socialise.
The conversation should have gone like this,
B I'm really sorry but I can't eat parmesan, it isn't veggie.
A oh no I'm sorry, didn't realise!
B no worries I'll just have some pasta and butter or something really simple or pop out for something.

Then just get on with the evening....

@kingsassassin – It is hardly difficult to google what is in a vegetarian diet rather than making sweeping assumptions.

skinnyduplotowers – Sensible and you are a good dinner host. Not clear that B was rude rather simply declining to eat something she ethically felt not able to.

Thatmustbenigelwiththebrie, Onatreebyariver and MrsBlondie – You are not vegetarian. Perhaps going in that direction. The rennet in the cheese was taken from a murdered animal.
Hoppinggreen - Sensible idea.

Sirzy –There seems no suggestion that B was rude to A. Rather was in an awkward position and no choice but to decline and explain. So, to you and SeasideSoul, if you come to mine for dinner and I make an effort to wash my hands a bit after using the loo you don’t mind eating off the food I hand prepare?
ReganSomerset – I agree a misunderstanding and no one intended to upset the other. All real vegetarians except perhaps the very young know about rennet. It is one of the lesser obvious one like isinglass in wine or cochineal for food colourings – both pretty gross. Not hard to look up though.
UtterlyUnimaginativeUsername – You’d best not invite a muslim or jewish person for dinner and not expect to serve halal or kosha. Why is that any different?

Sexnotgender – The host made an effort but did not go out of her way or she would have known from a quick google.

Nokidshere, Her0utdoors Onatreebyariver are spot on.

Shockthemonkey – Enjoy shite with sugar on top if you come to mine!
kalinkafoxtrot45 – If hosting a dinner take some responsibility. Don’t impose your differing values on others.

TeenTimesTwo – The web is hardly lacking in vegetarian recipes.

TheSpottedZebra – Yes, neither meant no harm. I don’t understand why use the word strict? Vegetarian is vegetarian. B never said ‘sort of’ so should not be assumed.

MagicKingdomDizzy – Sorry but you are simply ignorant and make assumptions. It was a simple mistake but it is hardly difficult to look it up on google or in the dictionary. Being vegetarian or vegan is not a fad but a deeply held value and some would vomit.

BlingLoving – It is not clear B did anything other than simply decline something she could not eat.

Well, if DD is at all concerned that something is not GF, she's very apologetic, and then eats what she thinks will not twist her guts in agony for the next three days.

So she'd be eating the salad and bread, which would be fine. That way she keeps herself safe, but doesn't cause someone who has made a very genuine effort, and is most probably rather mortified, more fuss and bother.

She tends to get repeat invites - bless the hosts, and bless her!

I have ceoliacs so I can not eat gluten - if someone had gone to the effort of making something special just for me I would be so touched my eyes would have welled up! If they had of made a mistake I still wouldn't have cared I would think its the though that counts. I would have just explained how grateful I was and I really didn't want to offend them but unfortunately I could not eat it for X reason but I was delighted to be there and happy to eat salad/veggies.

The web is hardly lacking in vegetarian recipes.

Yes indeedy, on the back of this thread I went and looked for a recipe for vegetarian lasagne. The first one I came to had parmesan in it. . .

@ittakes2

Please consider yourself having a standing invite to tea! (And it's always gluten free. . .)

Both were in the wrong or alternatively not in the wrong!

If I offered to make something and take into account dietary requirements, I'd make sure I understood what that meant - and what it meant to that guest.

I would also check as a guest that host knew some cheese is not veggie. I'm surprised that there seem to be vegetarians that don't know this. Not bothering about stuff like gelatine/rennet because it's 'invisible' is one thing, but being unaware of it, I find that quite surprising.

B being a bit too up herself, could have taken more trouble and explained about cheese or even asked if could take her own to be sure the meal full complied with her needs.

"I'm sure many vegetarians don't even know that parmesan/rennet is not vegetarian, so the host A was not expected to know."

I think it depends on why they are vegetarian. DD is for ethical and moral reasons and meticulously checks ingredients before buying/eating/drinking them. Someone who just doesn't like meat or fish won't be bothered about ingredients like rennet, fish finings in wine or gelatine in sweets.

Some vegetarians get sick from any meat contaminated food, even if it is just using the same knife.

My husband is one of them. My mum is now not allowed to go in my kitchen as she cross contaminates without thinking, making him sick.

This dish from the host would have made him sick and that wouldn't be fun for anyone involved.

“Some vegetarians get sick from any meat contaminated food, even if it is just using the same knife.“

Going to go out on a limb here- no they don’t. Not if they don’t actually know about the contamination. Human bodies don’t work like that.

Strange mbosnz because I put vegetarian lasagne recipe into Google and the first five or six results either specified “vegetarian hard cheese”, “vegetarian cheese” or “Parmesan (or vegetarian alternative)”. So in fact I find it pretty hard to believe that anyone looking for a veggie lasagne recipe would not be alerted to the fact that not all cheeses are vegetarian, even if they had previously had no idea.

Familyofaliens yes I totally would be happy with that!