Who was being unreasonable - vegetarian or host?

[neverendingflorist]

Going to try and keep this as short as possible.

Person A invited a group of people over for dinner, including person B who is a vegetarian. A didn't know B was a vegetarian at the time, but B let A know when accepting the invite. A said this was fine. A made lasagna for everyone for dinner, subbing the meat out for roasted veggies for B to make a separate dish. When dinner came round A explained to B what she had made for her and explained what it contained including parmesan cheese. B said sorry, she could not eat it as parmesan is not vegetarian. A said B should have really told her she could not eat parmesan as A thought vegetarians could eat cheese and wouldn't be expected to know these things as she hasn't cooked for vegetarians before. B said lots of things are not vegetarian that aren't just meat/fish and it would take forever to make a list of all things including which cheeses she could/couldn't eat. A thinks B has been very rude and B thinks A has been a poor host.

So who was being unreasonable? I am aware this is pretty much a non-event and should not have escalated in to a big disagreement, but I am interested on general opinions.

I think the majority if non-vegetarians and some vegetarians would not realise parmesan was not ‘allowed’. B should have politely explained and then helped the host put something together quickly - not get funny about it!

Then she's not a vegetarian she's vegan.

38 pages, 950 posts. The difference between veganism and vegetarianism have been discussed.

And oddly, several times in those 38 pages people have managed to point out that parmesan, in order to qualify as parmesan, must contain animal rennet. It's not just that it's a likely or possible ingredient. It's compulsory if said cheese is going to go by the name of parmeganio. And so vegetarians who eschew meat for ethical reasons won't eat it. Bugger all to do with it being made from milk. It's because bits of dead calf are a compulsory ingredient.

Ps I am sorry I am now informed about rennet. I know some wines are not vegan /veggie as they are made via a bladder of something or other. But to be honest -why not say beforehand would it really have not occurred to her that most people don't kniw it I didn't know this....maybe order in next time -sounds simpler!

Just read this 'food labelling laws in the UK mean that labels do not always require processing agents to be listed, of which animal rennet is one'. So there is no way of knowing whether a cheese is vegetarian unless it has a vegetarian symbol.

In my past vegetarian life, I would have just eaten it as A made the effort. On a French exchange I when i was asked whether I ate fish, I could tell the mum was struggling with the idea of not eating meat so I said yes. I thought I would only get fish fingers over the course of 8 days, not that I liked them. How hard could that be! However I had various types of fresh fish for lunch and dinner every day for a week. I felt so ill whilst eating it, but had been brought up to put up, shut up and eat it. I struggled to clear my plate and they would offer me more!!

I err on the side of caution and check ingredients thoroughly.

Gelatine (assume pork unless stated otherwise)
Rennet (hard cheeses)
Cochineal/carmine (red food colouring made from insect, but has been largely replaced with vegetarian alternatives)
Anchovies
Fish sauce
Worcester sauce
Cheese

I'm a vegetarian- the vegetarian is being incredibly unreasonable and rude.

@familyofaliens
Yes, I would be happy with that! All this is so pathetically ego driven, it's quite sickening. Who cares if the food isn't specifically to one's exacting requirements on a single bloody evening? But then I'm much more interested in the company and talk than what we're all stuffing in our mouths. It really isn't a big deal. None of us are starving are we?

How hard is it to check before you feed someone?

It's not hard to check if you KNOW to check.

If you DON'T know to check, then it's impossible to check.

😭😂

It's not hard to check if you KNOW to check.

If you DON'T know to check, then it's impossible to check.

Exactly! It's like asking how many undiscovered tombs there are in Egypt.
If you think cheese is all vegetarian (and you frequently read things about them getting protein from eggs, cheese, pulses and so forth) why would you check?

And if you do, it won't necessarily say "rennet" anyway.

What was "cancel the cheque"?
If it was anything like this it must have been a riot

I hear ya, this thread's infuriating lol!

It's not hard to check if you KNOW to check.

And A knew to check. B had already told A that she was a vegetarian so the very least A should have done was to check what they were serving was actually vegetarian. Not just chuck random stuff in a dish and go that'll do. It's really that simple.

Also I'm still gobsmacked by the number "I'm vegetarian and didn't know" posts. How the fuck can you claim to be something and not actually bother to learn about it??? It's like claiming to be teetotal while knocking back a cider.

Also it depends on why they don't eat meat. If it's ethical they are unlikely to eat any food made using animal ingredients in the process (excluding dairy). Whereas if they simply don't like the taste/texture of meat, they probably won't worry about by products (gelatine/rennet) being used.

Some people are dismissive of vegetarians/vegans. It's like expecting someone who opposes child labour to accept and wear an item of clothing made by an oversea's manufacturer that is known to use child labour, just because it's been given to them as a gift.

And A knew to check. B had already told A that she was a vegetarian so the very least A should have done was to check what they were serving was actually vegetarian. Not just chuck random stuff in a dish and go that'll do. It's really that simple.

Cheese IS vegetarian though! You'll think "cheese is OK" and put it on.
parmesan isn't though

Cheese IS vegetarian though!

Nope. Some cheese is vegetarian, some is not. And if cooking for someone with a different diet to you its really not difficult to check the odd label or even talk to the guest to check.

Just needs the odd synapse engaged.

Expecting someone to eat something they have ethical issues with because you were careless or made a mistake is just bizarre.

Nope. Some cheese is vegetarian, some is not. And if cooking for someone with a different diet to you its really not difficult to check the odd label or even talk to the guest to check.

Yes, but as the thread clearly shows, not everyone knows parmesan isn't veggie as cheese usually is.
Vegetarians eat cheese.
I know parmesan isn't veggie and wouldn't serve it, but if the knowledge of animal rennet isn't there you'd think that cheese is fine for vegetarians.

@FionasWineShow the host knew the guest was vegetarian.
As did the many many ‘friends’ & family of mine knew that DS could not have dairy but still would claim ignorance.

This thread if anything tells me I shouldn’t invite any strict vegetarians or vegans for dinner at any time

Vegetarians fault for making clear her dietary needs. The host us not a mind reader. Also think vegetarian should decide if they vegetarian or vegan.

As someone with esoteric allergies, I actually think it is challenging for anyone other than the person dealing with the restriction to catch every possible thing. You have to know every variation of naming under which an ingredient can appear. You have to check packaging on things you have bought hundreds of times before because formulations change all the time.

B was a rude .... . End of. Nobody should be reading on some vegetarianism just coz one guest says they are. Ridiculous.

Obviously the labelling applies to processed food. And yes- if bread doesn’t say suitable for vegetarians it isn’t

All the meat eaters I know wouldn't have the thought enter their head to check the bloody bread ingredients
Bread is fine for vegetarians. Vegans not so much because the amount of breads out there that have milk in is ridiculous.

Some bread has gelatine in, so isn't suitable for vegetarians.

B was a rude .... . End of. Nobody should be reading on some vegetarianism just coz one guest says they are. Ridiculous.

HAHAHA. What?! Is that a joke! You wouldn't cater to your guests dietary requirements?

B was not rude at all. She apologised that she couldn't eat a non-vegetarian dish when she had specified she was vegetarian.

Rennet is cow's stomach - it is meat. No less meat than a chicken leg, or a steak.

Just because it doesn't look like meat or cannot be deciphered as meat, doesn't mean veggies should eat it.

Why should B sacrifice her beliefs and choices because A did not check that her recipe was veggie? If she didn't like the fact she had to cater for B or thought she could not, then she shouldn't have attempted to do so (asked her to bring her own dish/or check that the dish was OK).

Some bread has gelatine in, so isn't suitable for vegetarians.

Dafuq?!
See, I've been married to a strict vegetarian and recently turned vegan for years (as I said upthread.)
I'm well up on both vegetarian and vegan foods.
Even I didn't know that if true!
What the hell chance have meat eaters got lol.
Bring your own or stay at home seems the easiest option

I would side with a....how the heck is she supposed to know? I wouldn't know unless i was one x nor would i know what to cook.someone who is gluten free or celiac or diabetic or chrons...tbh everyone has different diets. I dont like peas but i wouldn't expect a host to know that

It’s a matter of habit for me to now check for the vegetarian sign on all food I buy.

Manufacturers are constantly changing the ingredients of stuff, mainly to make it cheaper too produce.

Still traumatised by that time mars bars were briefly not suitable for vegetarians.