Who was being unreasonable - vegetarian or host?

[neverendingflorist]

Going to try and keep this as short as possible.

Person A invited a group of people over for dinner, including person B who is a vegetarian. A didn't know B was a vegetarian at the time, but B let A know when accepting the invite. A said this was fine. A made lasagna for everyone for dinner, subbing the meat out for roasted veggies for B to make a separate dish. When dinner came round A explained to B what she had made for her and explained what it contained including parmesan cheese. B said sorry, she could not eat it as parmesan is not vegetarian. A said B should have really told her she could not eat parmesan as A thought vegetarians could eat cheese and wouldn't be expected to know these things as she hasn't cooked for vegetarians before. B said lots of things are not vegetarian that aren't just meat/fish and it would take forever to make a list of all things including which cheeses she could/couldn't eat. A thinks B has been very rude and B thinks A has been a poor host.

So who was being unreasonable? I am aware this is pretty much a non-event and should not have escalated in to a big disagreement, but I am interested on general opinions.

So if I understand this thread correctly - B should have given A an exhaustive list of all the world's foodstuffs which include animal derived products?

To save A looking at labels for the green symbol. Or checking on google. Or discussing the meal with B to check the ingredients - who wouldn't do that if cooking for a diet they do not know?

Yes totally makes sense on MN.

A made a mistake, B apologised for not being able to eat it. End of story.

I had few people over couple of years ago for lunch. Some I knew well, others I had met twice before. One of these people was vegan, we had pulled pork and ribs for lunch... She got extremely upset with me and would not eat anything at all, not even fruits that we brought out (on their own) as part of dessert.

Duh, of course, I couldn't eat the bread either if I was kosher or halal. Not sure about salad. I think it would be better to bring my own food!

It's a bit of a shit situation but if the host didn't know what vegetarians eat why didn't they ask?
I wouldn't expect a vegetarian to eat stomach lining, it's not exactly a stretch of the term 'vegetarian' not to eat animals stomachs .

Limekiwi your second link couldn’t be any clearer that Parmesan is not vegetarian!

Screenshot

You’d be happy to go to someone’s for dinner and be given salad and bread and nothing else? Sure you would.

Speaking for my daughter - she wouldn't necessarily be 'happy'. She finds her involuntary dietary limitations extremely frustrating, and sometimes embarrassing. However, she'd happily accept that this was what was possible as a result of her dietary limitations, and so as not to cause embarrassment and upset to someone who had clearly made an effort, while protecting her health.

She's 13. And yes, this is something that has happened, in times past.

Oh - obviously she couldn't have the bread, lol!

Lime that recipe states ‘Parmesan cheese is not truly vegetarian, as it contains animal rennet. To make this dish 100% vegetarian, omit the cheese or find a suitable vegetarian substitute made without animal rennet. In supermarkets look for the 'parmesan style hard cheeses' which are suitable for vegetarians.’

I think Lime probably gets the point by now

Thought my screenshot hadn’t posted the first time, sorry . And that Jamie Oliver “vegetarian” recipe that mbosnz posted does indeed get it wrong. Tsk tsk Jamie. No wonder your restaurants went to the wall.

B was rude. Is she’s that strict a vegetarian, she should have said something at the time, no need to give an exhaustive list, just a few examples so that A knew what to look out for.

I have some vegan friends, veggie friends and people who say they’re veggie but they’re not as they eat fish.

How awful for A. Not saying B should have eaten the food as it goes against something she obviously feels very strongly about, but she should have been clearer in her initial response.

I think Lime probably gets the point by now

Which could be never attempt to cater for vegetarians, let alone vegans, lest ye give mortal offence and ethical food poisoning?

As per my previous post, it wouldn't occur to many omnivores that a vegetable lasagne isn't suitable for a vegetarian.

Not all vegetable dishes are vegetarian. I would hope this is obvious but going on this thread it really, really isn't. Many vegetable soups are made with meat stocks for example - French onion soup being the classic. Lentil soup is often made with ham stock, which is truly fucking annoying especially if someone is making something for a vegetarian but uses ham stock "to give it a bit of flavour" (yes, I have heard that). Roasted vegetables are often done in lard or goose fat. It's why chip shop chips are often not vegetarian, they tend to be fried in meat fat.

All these things come up often enough in the media that I would hope more people would be aware, but again obviously not.

The host was rude, for a start if you invite people around for dinner you expect the cater for their dietary needs. Secondly it’s pretty clear she made little effort on the food front with roasted veggies. As others have said if you were sure it’s pretty easy to google vegetarian food. Not eating Parmesan has nothing to do with veganism 🙄

Finally if as a host you were in any doubt you could have always checked with your guest that what you planned to cook was okay.

B was outrageously rude. People who have dietary needs should make them known up front if they are easily catered for. If they are awkward they should bring their own food and just eat the accompanying salads or vegetables.

I think Lime probably gets the point by now

Yep
It seems my speed reading's failing me tonight, think it's time for bed lol.

Which could be never attempt to cater for vegetarians, let alone vegans, lest ye give mortal offence and ethical food poisoning?

Absolbloodylutely, you can all feckin stay at home

JOKE! I'm very up on what is and isn't vegetarian or indeed vegan really and have to cater for a pesky vegan daily and have had to put up with him for the last 2 decades lol luv him really

Well, I don't think A was rude. They did attempt to cater for their dietary needs, specially creating a vegetarian (as they thought) lasagne. Which I think is a fair old attempt. Secondly, I think we've just established that you could google for a vegetarian lasagne recipe, and it could come up with something saying parmesan (thank you Jamie), which could, indeed, to the uninitiated, just desperately trying to cook something they're not familiar with for a dietary prejudice they're not familiar with catering for, indicate that parmesan was okay. Finally, as a host, if I was not particularly familiar with a guest, I might find it a tad awkward to get in touch with them to grill them as to whether they're not really vegetarian, really vegetarian, as defined by vegetarians, or so vegetarian they're actually vegan. . . a right bloody minefield!

However, I don't think B was rude. They made it clear they were vegetarian. They didn't realise that to the uninitiated (or apparently some vegetarians, but not the REALLY observant ones) parmesan would not necessarily be flagged as an issue.

Misunderstanding on both sides, Effort on both sides. Embarrassment and a touch of frustration on both sides.

OK, here's one!

Jamie's chucking parmesan all over the place and IT'S NOT VEGETARIAN
awaits someone telling me that I'm being blind again and it says clearly about it

www.glamour.com/story/jamie-olivers-vegetarian-lasag

First page of google too when googling vegetarian lasagne..
Vegetable lasagne, you'd think you'd be fine with that doing a veggie dish if you didn't know as veggies usually eat cheese.
You;d think to look for gravy or some such thing usually, but not cheese!

I already did that one Lime!!!

FFS, I'm off home lol

PMSL, have a sav blanc. On the house. Don't know whether it's veggie friendly, is that okay?

It's a bit of a shit situation but if the host didn't know what vegetarians eat why didn't they ask? I wouldn't expect a vegetarian to eat stomach lining, it's not exactly a stretch of the term 'vegetarian' not to eat animals stomachs

She did! She said she was vegetarian. Vegetarians eat cheese.
If you don't know parmesan has animal stomach, then you don't know!
It seems a lot of veggies don't know either according to this thread.
You can't alert someone if you don't know there's something to alert them about...

PMSL, have a sav blanc. On the house. Don't know whether it's veggie friendly, is that okay?

Thanks, I don't care if it is or not, I'll drink owt, me

I wouldn't expect a vegetarian to eat stomach lining, it's not exactly a stretch of the term 'vegetarian' not to eat animals stomachs

Oh my God....!

Clearly the mistake has come about because many omnivores DON'T KNOW THAT PARMESAN CHEESE IS MADE WITH STOMACH LINING!!

FFS. This isn't common knowledge among people who don't have food foibles.

Some non-vegetarians are aware.

Many are not.

The onus is on you.