Who was being unreasonable - vegetarian or host?

[neverendingflorist]

Going to try and keep this as short as possible.

Person A invited a group of people over for dinner, including person B who is a vegetarian. A didn't know B was a vegetarian at the time, but B let A know when accepting the invite. A said this was fine. A made lasagna for everyone for dinner, subbing the meat out for roasted veggies for B to make a separate dish. When dinner came round A explained to B what she had made for her and explained what it contained including parmesan cheese. B said sorry, she could not eat it as parmesan is not vegetarian. A said B should have really told her she could not eat parmesan as A thought vegetarians could eat cheese and wouldn't be expected to know these things as she hasn't cooked for vegetarians before. B said lots of things are not vegetarian that aren't just meat/fish and it would take forever to make a list of all things including which cheeses she could/couldn't eat. A thinks B has been very rude and B thinks A has been a poor host.

So who was being unreasonable? I am aware this is pretty much a non-event and should not have escalated in to a big disagreement, but I am interested on general opinions.

OP perhaps should have mentioned that the vegetarian didn't want to eat parmesan specifically because it contains rennet, because clearly a lot of people responding do not know that and think B was being U as some sort of vegetarian who doesn't eat cheese but doesn't tell people that.

It was just a mistake and a difficult situation. Lots of vegetarians replying that they would just have eaten it... I don't know. I'm a vegetarian and really would not want to eat it. I haven't knowingly eaten animal products in many years, and I wouldn't really want to do it now just to appease somebody. At the same time, if the host obviously made a simple and honest mistake (since clearly most people don't know parmesan isn't vegetarian!) and made a significant effort to accommodate my diet, I'd feel really bad rejecting it.

So in summary, I think I'd just say to the host what I just said here. Be gracious and honest. Hopefully I'd be having dinner with nice people who would understand and none of us would turn it into a big thing. I could always order a curry or pizza and let the rest of the group share the veggie lasagna?

I was a vegetarian for several decades. In situations like this outside of my control, I would have just eaten whatever I was given (assuming it didn't contain meat) as I understand it isn't obvious what's vegetarian and what isn't if you aren't vegetarian. But I think if someone isn't comfortable doing that in a situation like this, they have to either be very specific to the host when accepting the invitation about what they can eat, or as I often did, offer to bring my own main portion of the meal and I would fill that out with sides or whatever provided by the host.

That said, lots of cheese now contains vegetarian rennet, so unless said guest actually read the ingredients, there would be no way of knowing if a cheese was vegetarian or not.

A took their eye off the ball: a quick google search could have told them that parmesan was not vegetarian and suggested alternatives. But it sounds (from your description) that B was a bit blunt and rude about it.

I am vegetarian and would have eaten it - better that than to spread the message that vegetarians are rude, which could potentially put others off cutting out meat! But we all draw the line in different places, so I don't think B was wrong not to eat it.

An unfortunate misunderstanding that could have been cleared up politely and in good humour.

Neither was unreasonable, it was just a mistake. Most people think all cheese is vegetarian. I would have just eaten the side dishes and politely declined the lasagne, or if the cheese was on the top, just scrapped it off.

The veggie was BU

It's definitely something to bear in mind in the future for me! I'll say "I'm vegetarian and btw that includes parmesan, which contains animal products", instead of just "i'm vegetarian"!

I don’t think either was being particularly rude.
There are lots of things vegetarians can’t eat and drink because there are a surprising amount of meat byproducts in foods, wines, beer, toiletries...

Im not vegetarian but I am a keen cook and watch a lot of cookery programs so I was aware that some cheeses are unsuitable, but I appreciate this isn’t something that would naturally come to mind for everyone.

I think neither were rude. It was a simply a misunderstanding, nothing more. I wouldn't expect a vegetarian to eat something that goes against her moral beliefs, just to avoid hurting my feelings!

None of them were rude, it was a mistake. A probably felt awkward especially if she didn't have any alternatives to offer B (i didn't know parmesan was non veggie) what did B end up eating? It would take me a lot to refuse a host's food, that is very uncomfortable.

really want a cheesy lasagne now

I have 2 RL friends that are vegan, and they always offer to bring their own foods to dinners and ask the host to pop it in the oven.

Most of our friends are keen meat eaters, so I'd guess this is pretty sensible.

I’m a vegetarian. Have never had to list every single food I can’t eat. I’ve never been to a dinner party where the host hasn’t run a meal past me via text beforehand. Neither of them are in the wrong (A for not realising, B for not eating) but they’re being a bit unreasonable by causing a ruckus over it! Both should just apologise and laugh it off.

A genuine mistake by both, no so unreasonabless.

However, as a general aside, many vegetarians are so for ethical reasons (and don't touch by-products) and many for 'just' taste/diet/health reasons (and sometimes do eat by-products). That's before you get into the realms of pescatarian, ovo-lactos etc...... so it's not that clear cut unless you are 'it', and therefore probably need to help others out if being hosted.

I believe (it's been a long time since I checked), that to be called parmesan it must be made with animal rennet. Otherwise it's usually marketed as "Italian hard cheese".

A is being unreasonable in terms of expecting B to have listed every single food item that isn't vegetarian.

I'm vegetarian and I couldn't have eaten it. If it was just on the top, I'd have tried to have carefully removed the top layer and eat the rest (whilst weeping silently, as the cheesy top layer is the best bit!) but if it was in the sauce throughout the dish I'd have made do with the side salad/slice of toast/bowl of cereal.

It seems strange that A specifically mentioned parmesan though?

I was clearly a crap vegetarian as I ate parmesan
I think it was nice of your friend to make a dish especially.
My PILs had a BBQ last year - entirely meat. They know I don't eat meat and hadn't got anything for me (I took some cold Linda McCartney sausages and buns in my bag as had anticipated no veggie stuff)

A should have handed B a takeaway pizza menu and told her to sort something out for herself. B was rude. An effort had been made for her.

Having said that if I was A I would have text her and said "I'm making x, is that ok for you?" The onus would then have been on B to give details.

A thinks B has been very rude and B thinks A has been a poor host.

So who was being unreasonable?

I think I'm afraid that A has been a poor host - not for not realising about the Parmesan, which was an honest mistake, but for making an issue of it when they were told B could not eat it. The role of the host is to make guests feel welcome - to be hospitable.

As long as B was not "very rude" (e.g. "I can't possibly eat that, how could you even think I could, didn't you KNOW it has rennet in it, how stupid of you") then I think A was the most unreasonable.

Feel sorry for A , B was very rude.

I think B was being precious and unreasonable. You obviously went to some effort to cater for them.

Did B drink wine? That’s not vegetarian either.

A clearly made a genuine mistake and went out of his/her way to try and make something B could eat. However Parmesan just isn't vegetarian and expecting B to eat it to avoid a fuss is a bit shit.

I think the only unreasonableness here is in both of them being so dickish about it. No one has been "very rude" or a "poor host".

I'm vegetarian and btw that includes parmesan Are you joking?! Parmesan isn’t some special exception. So many foods are “meat” but also aren’t vegetarian. Should a vegetarian really have a prepared list of things they can’t eat?! Whereas the host could just google/look on the packet of the ten ingredients they’re cooking with.

A lot of non-vegetarians don't realise cheese is made with rennet but I've known plenty of vegetarians who eat any kind of cheese and are either unaware of it or not bothered. I think B should have given more detail to A.

Does B realise that cows have to be pregnant to produce milk and therefore the male 50% of the calves born have to be slaughtered? I think dairy eating vegetarians need to have a think about the dairy industry anyway.

I'm not a vegetarian.

If the parmesan was just on top could they not have removed the top layer and eaten the veg and bottom layers of pasta?

If it was real Parmigiano Reginano then fine, that does contain animal rennet, but most supermarket parmesans are mostly fake and contain cheddar, swiss and cellulose non of which contain animal products.
And if A cooked a lasagna with real Parmigiano Reginano then she is a very generous host as that stuff is CRAZY expensive (which is why the fakes exist!)

Should a vegetarian really have a prepared list of things they can’t eat?!

Well, seems like in some cases they maybe should, yes!

But actually now I'm thinking about it, I think the reason it's never been necessary for me (and most people) is because as other PPs have said, the host usually tells you what they're going to make, so when they say lasagna you would think "oh, better mention parmesan".

I think in A's shoes I would have checked before hand. I wasn't aware that parmesan was used in lasagne so would have said as a veggie that would be fine, however if parmesan was mentioned I would have said before hand. It's tricky. I think for me the host should have checked the menu was OK.