Who was being unreasonable - vegetarian or host?

[neverendingflorist]

Going to try and keep this as short as possible.

Person A invited a group of people over for dinner, including person B who is a vegetarian. A didn't know B was a vegetarian at the time, but B let A know when accepting the invite. A said this was fine. A made lasagna for everyone for dinner, subbing the meat out for roasted veggies for B to make a separate dish. When dinner came round A explained to B what she had made for her and explained what it contained including parmesan cheese. B said sorry, she could not eat it as parmesan is not vegetarian. A said B should have really told her she could not eat parmesan as A thought vegetarians could eat cheese and wouldn't be expected to know these things as she hasn't cooked for vegetarians before. B said lots of things are not vegetarian that aren't just meat/fish and it would take forever to make a list of all things including which cheeses she could/couldn't eat. A thinks B has been very rude and B thinks A has been a poor host.

So who was being unreasonable? I am aware this is pretty much a non-event and should not have escalated in to a big disagreement, but I am interested on general opinions.

It sounds like a mistake on A's part, rather than unreasonableness, but now both people have become a bit positional on it and it's escalated.

I'm evidently going against the AIBU grain here but my perspective would be that A was... perhaps somewhat thoughtless, if not unreasonable. Knowing that Parmesan indeed, many cheeses aren't vegetarian isn't niche info or an unusual position, and it's easily established with a quick google. Furthermore, B told A in advance that she/he was vegetarian, and vegetarian is a pretty straightforward diet to work with.

That said, if B was actively rude to A about it (how did that manifest itself, beyond explaining that they couldn't eat the lasagne?), that's not on, it's just ungracious.

So I'd say that neither party has covered themselves in cheesy glory here but it's nothing to massively fall out about either.

B needed to get over herself & just eat it

Nice. Eat what you’re damn well given, hmm? No matter if it makes you ill, or goes against all your moral principles. Would you say the same to a person of faith who refused to eat a certain food item?

B is an ungracious twat who gives vegetarians a worse name than "vegetarians" who think fish don't count. I say that as a veggie for over 40 years.

I am not A or B in this scenario, I am another guest. Just want to say that neither was actually outright rude to each other, my post might have come across that way as I was trying to keep it short. B actually was very apologetic that she could not eat it. And A certainly did not expect her to just eat it anyway. The issue came from A thinking B should have informed her of all the products she could not eat and B saying that was actually thousands of things that were not clearly meat and fish, including quite a lot of wines and beers.

I'm vegan. But if my host had made an obvious effort but got something wrong (and you can assume a lot of things are vegan-friendly when they are actually nothing of the sort!) then I think I'd just eat it unless i could separate it out with making a drama out of it!

QueenOfTheTofuTree

I get that. But most non vegetarians wouldn't know that. Really it's up to B to be clear about what she does and doesn't eat.

A asked for dietary requirements so should have checked ingredients. B would be right to assume having been asked for dietary requirements that they had been stuck to. I'd hate to think what could have happened if it had been a nut allergy.

B was really rude and if I were A I wouldn't invite her again.

She doesn’t eat animal products and told the host

She does eat animal products. She's a vegetarian. She just doesn't eat meat and meat byproducts. And parmesan contains rennet which is a meat byproduct therefore not suitable for vegetarians.

I think the vegetarian was very rude. I know most parmesan cheese isn't vegetarian and wouldn't have used it myself but lots of people don't. My husband would have either eaten it or picked out the veg as best as he could and ate that.

Sounds like a mistake-but both of them have been a bit dickish about it. Both say sorry and move on. A could check packets for green Vs next time.

It's a shame A didn't know that Parmesan in not vegetarian.

If I were B, I would have discreetly scraped off the cheese sauce and if noticed, I would have politely mentioned that I couldn't eat Parmesan. Depends on how the lasagne was prepared - if it had a lot of cheese sauce throughout it would be difficult.

If I were A, I would have been mortified, and prepped something else quickly e.g. spaghetti with a simple tomato sauce.

Most non-vegetarians don't know, and personally I wouldn't think it reasonable to expect them to know, that Parmesn isn't vegetarian.

A vegetarian friend was tucking into a Muller yoghurt and I said 'That's got gelatine in it, car you eat it?' and she had no idea.

If B was stroppy or condescending about it, then she's U because it was a geniune mistake.

If A expected B to eat it/didn't respect her diet choices, then A is U because although it was a genuine mistake, it doesn't follow that B must eat it.

Ulimately neither is to blame but who is U depends on each's behaviour and how their points were phrased, I suppose.

But I do find the “B should have just eaten it” attitude a bit strange. How much non vegetarian stuff can be in a meal before it’s OK to refuse it?

I'm a bit torn - I'm vegetarian and don't eat parmesan. I've always known that some cheeses aren't vegetarian and not sure it would occur to me to mention it specifically. If offered parmesan on pasta etc I would always say no. However in this case the host has obviously tried to be accommodating but made a mistake. As it was already made I would probably eat it to be polite, and also wouldn't want the food to be wasted.
I will probably start mentioning this now as I don't want to end up in this situation! I thought rennet was more widely known about.

Neither are in the wrong. As a vegetarian, I wouldn't be able to eat something that derives from an animal - one off or not. It would make me feel sick and probably retch as I eat it. I have never knowingly eaten meat or fish in my life. However, I completely appreciate that those who are not vegetarian would not think to check if all ingredients (cheese, gelatine, sauces) etc are vegetarian and would never consider someone making an honest mistake to be an ungrateful host - especially if they went out of their way to cater for me.

Fortunately, when others have catered for me in the past, they have always run what they plan to make by me so I can let them know if some part of it may knowingly contain non-veg ingredients. Equally, I have always asked if they need any help and offered to bring a veg component.

Jeeeeeeez, we learnt about non-vegetarian cheese in school 20+ years ago! A is unreasonable mainly for not checking with B in advance.

(I’m not a vegetarian)

Can see both sides. I wouldn’t necessarily expect a meat eater to know Parmesan isn’t vegetarian, but then if I were cooking for someone with a known dietary requirement I would have checked each ingredient. I don’t think it’s fair to expect the vegetarian to run through every single thing they can’t eat. And it would’ve been easy for the host to call the veggie in advance to run the menu by her.

I am a vegetarian and I wouldn’t have eaten it, but I would have felt bad and I certainly wouldn’t have thought the host was a bad person - it’s just one of those awkward mishaps that happen sometimes and with a bit of grace on all sides it needn’t be a falling out.

I’m a vegetarian and probably would have just eaten it but I’m a more recent convert so I’m not sure I’d always feel the same.

If I really felt I couldn’t I would just apologise for not being clearer and say what a great job the host had done and sit down and have a glass of something while everyone else ate, and eat my own food later.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to not eat something that conflicts with your ethical beliefs but if someone has made a big effort that should really be appreciated even if they get it slightly wrong!

As soon as A found out B was vegetarian she should have rescinded the invitation.

Problem solved.

Most vegetarian foodstuffs these days come with a suitable for vegetarians sign, so it's not difficult to check. I think A could have checked with B before making the lasagne and discussed the ingredients she would be using.

I can totally understand B not wanting to eat the food and don't think it's rude.

I think B was being on the unreasonable side. To a non-vegetarian, anything that doesn’t obviously contain flesh = vegetarian. If B had such strong principles that her vegetarianism extends to cheese, and that she wouldn’t break those principles by eating the food if presented and well-intentioned, then she should have stated clearly what she wouldn’t eat upfront.

I have a policy of not eating non-high welfare standard meat but occasionally I have to eat what’s served to me by people who mean well. Obviously it different if the food stuff in question will make you ill or go into anaphylactic shock, but this is a moral rather than a medical issue.

Some people on here still havent got it . Vegetarians do eat cheese except Parmesan , which traditionally contains rennet . A lot od people don't know that
I cant see where B was being rude , she quite rightly said she couldn't eat it

I'm a vegetarian and I didn't know that about parmesan. I have only eaten it a couple of times decades ago though.
I don't think the host was being unreasonable as, as stated, even I wouldn't know, but B is also within her rights not to eat it. Difficult one. I don't think anyone is to 'blame' though.

I'm vegan now, was veggie for a long time and did eat parmesan. Therefore, the veggie should have been clearer.

I mean, the lasagne would have had egg, milk in - also animal by products - so where does the guest draw the line is between veggie and vegan?