To wonder what planet Boris Johnson and the conservatives are on

[cansu]

Boris Johnson's big idea is to cut taxes for the wealthiest people in society. Jeremy Hunt is concerned about lowering the abortion limit. Matt Hancock had to literally be forced to comment on the scandal at Whorlton Hall. I have just watched the second panorama programme on care. We have a care crisis. We do not spend enough money on caring for elderly and disabled people. I honestly despair that anyone would consider voting for these idiots who have no understanding of normal life and the actual problems that people are facing.

It doesn't matter what any of them pledge in their manefesto ignore them all - even very small insignificant changes are likely to happen because conservatives don't have enough seats In parliament to win majority votes on any policy suggestions.
There's stacks and stacks of policies backlogged because there's no way of reaching a majority vote!

No Zipee. Clear understanding. Comes back to the principle that a single person living in a 2 bed bungalow will pay more than a family living in, for example a 4 bed 3 storey town house ( rented or owned). No rebate of 25%for single occupancy.

Arctic actually I can't remember for sure, but when I looked at care for my dad, I think some places asked about how we were funded because of the differing rates...and then one place said the council weren't funding them any more for reasons I can't recall. So yes, I think there are probably differing prices for the same care in some places, but overall I found the whole care home thing incredibly complex.

Anecdote from one program does not mean that its true of all or actually of how the system works.

If this is what you have based your complaint of "unfair on then its as spurious as I said earlier.

Again, why should care be subsidised when people have an asset they no longer need to use to pay for it.

Average time spent in a care home is 3 years. So on average 90k spent on care. Average house price is 231k.

But only if the land is worth more, the rates would be set by local councils . Poor understanding again.

Council tax is in need of massive reform, from discounts for second homes, to property left empty.

Oh and low income home owners appear to be exempt in plans too.

So your strawman doesn't work.

people who are comfortable feel they deserve help via tax cuts

I think you'll find that most people who are comfortable don't think of tax cuts as "help." "Help" is when you receive money, it's not the word you use when the compulsory help you provide to other people is reduced.

Or the amount of money you pay to live in the society that facilitates your earning.

• You do realise that the vast majority of people earning that amount, worked hard to earn that amount?

It annoys me how so many British people believe it’s higher earners responsibility to supplement their lower income via taxes.*

Yes, it's only high earners who work hard. Ever considered that those on low incomes are doing essential jobs, not just fanning about enjoying themselves at your expense?

Oh, and apparently this tax cut will be offset by putting up NI contributions. So enjoy your tax break and taking money from those on low incomes. God knows, you've earned it. 🙄

Oh i hadn't read that it was to be paid for by NI increases.

Appalling.

Zipee why do you insist I have poor understanding of this?
Councils will need to gernerate as much income as possible so it is likely that will set higher rates. Of course 10m2 is less valuable than 50m2 in the same area ( for example)

as for the "working hard" - carers work very hard, nurses work very hard, many essential workers work very hard. Surely increasing the tax free allowance would be a better option?

Those of us who earn less than the income tax and NI thresholds also work very hard. I am so busy at work that most days I leave without having had even a glass of water, mind you that is fortunate as there is usually no time to visit the toilet either.

drey I agree, I wasn't omitting non-taxpayers from those who work hard.

I was just thinking, if Bojo wants to offer a tax reduction he is targeting a very strange group, that's all. I hate the assumption made by some posters that more money = harder work.

taking money from those on low incomes

No one is taking money from anyone. Simply keeping a bit more of the money they aren’t.

it's only high earners who work hard

I never said that. I said that pretty much all earners around the 50-80 k marks work hard. Lower earners work harder too but let’s not deny that often lower salaries require less time studying, less competition and lower grades etc

Great strawman about the drama student, what about the vast majority of other low paid jobs that arent frivolous in your mind?

Never deemed them frivolous. I’m simply saying people choose the career they want. Everybody knows the average salary of a drama student is lower than a chemist. These facts aren’t hidden.

High earners benefit from society more than low earners, it facilitates their earning.

Huh, I think we’ll have to agree to disagree

You misunderstand my critique, it was that you chose a drama student as you regard their degree as less important and therefore it allows you to make the argument that low income jobs are a result of choice or personal responsibility. They are not, you deliberately chose a drama degree rather than nursing, or teaching or a vast array of other degrees that don't pay well to start with to create a strawman fpr your point.

High earners do benefit more from society as it facilitates their earning, sorry that yoi dont understand that, but its true. No one is a high earner based all on their own individual work and society must function for them to be able to earn.

As I said the smug self attribution fallacy is strong here, and as flawed as ever.

@RosaWaiting leaseholders have a freeholder e.g. in a longer term tenant/landlord relationships, so it would be just another bill for the freeholder to rip their leaseholders off with.

Oh and it's actually better to spend the tax cut money on pre-school education and housing as it would have better long term effects for those earning 80K and less.

The selfishness and ignorance on this thread answers your question I think OP. People want the money for themselves and the Tories offer them that option.

Bollocks Tories trot out to defend their selfish attitudes

50k isn't really a high income( tell that to a mother who has to choose between buying tampons and her kids dinner)

We work hard for this (tell that to the couple working three jobs between them and never seeing each other just so they can afford rent)

We don't sponge off the state like they do. (Do you have your own private police service, see a private GP for every appointment, decline free school meals for your infants, never use libraries, send your kids to private schools and nurseries etc etc)

Oh and yes, taking money from the poor is correct because this tax cut looka to be funded by an overall increase in national insurance, so they will pay more in tax so you can have your cut.

Just like VAT rates have gone up since the top rates of tax have come down.

Oh a high earners are less likely to spend their tax cut, so this won't benefit the economy either

can't claim private schools as not receiving state benefit. They get significant tax cuts and other arrangements.

Strangely when you add it up per chils in the system it works out to exactly what would have been spent on them in the state.

No one is taking money from anyone. Simply keeping a bit more of the money they aren’t

Well, if the loss is recouped from increasing NI then everyone will have to pay for it so some high earners will benefit from those on low incomes.

Everyone in Scotland will have to pay for it. Scottish high earners will not benefit from this as it won't apply. We have a system here that ensures that low earners pay less tax, but they will have to pay more NI for the sole benefit of high earners in England.

I think Boris’ idea is ridiculous purely from a political perspective and disregarding the merits of non merits of it. How the fuck will that ever be a vote winner than the majority of the electorate don’t earn that level of cash to benefit from it?

Hunt I just thought was naive in being honest as he didn’t propose even being interested in changing the abortion time limit and I think he’s entitled to an opinion as long as he doesn’t seek to impose it so a bit harsh to say obsessed. Again though a stupid gaffe to make and should have just said something meaningless like he was happy how things are blah blah blah.

Wouldn’t have a problem with Gove being a coke fiend if he hadn’t pushed through that legislation against drug taking public servants so he’s fair game to get bashed for massive hypocrisy.

Who’s left? They’re the three main ones. Maybe Javid will come through late but don’t think most people have much a fuss about Hunts comments except on here

Boris would have no mandate for it anyway.

Its interesting to see though all the people that were here talking about the magic money tree appear to think it will work for them.

I'm in Scotland, the day I vote tory I'll shoot myself. I despise them. Most Scots do. Yet we can't get rid of them. I see the voters as middle englanders from the shires. And over 45. A million miles away from what I know. I despair and just hope the next generation is more compassionate to each other and keep the tories out.

And the best way to do this, my friend, is to get out there, bang the Yes / Aye 2 drum and let THIS generation take us out of the UK.

Sorry, England, we tried to help you stop you from doing this incredibly stupid thing but it's time to let go of your hand and let you go it alone. Once we're out I'm sure Wales and Northern Ireland will be more than happy to follow our lead and leave you to enjoy your delusional, Russian oligarchy money-laundering Tory offshore tax-haven heaven.

I fear that Boris will win though and then go on to get smashed by Corbyn which is my worst nightmare. I’m not attached to either party but just can’t vote for Labour when he. or another Momentum hand picked candidate is at the helm

I think Boris’ idea is ridiculous purely from a political perspective and disregarding the merits of non merits of it. How the fuck will that ever be a vote winner than the majority of the electorate don’t earn that level of cash to benefit from it?*

Depends on the electorate he's talking to. At the moment he is ONLY concerned with the 124,000 (or thereabouts) Conservative Party membership. At the moment that is the ONLY group he is interested in winning over.

He'll get round to thinking of some shiny baubles for the rest of us later. When he's got his feet under the desk. He has no plan other than win power. He'll work out what to do with it once he's in. Just like Trump.