To put up and shut up with the transphobia on here?

[thetonsillolith]

I am fully supportive of the LGBTQ community and don't feel it is my position to question or undermine those who believe they were born in the wrong body.

And yet i see literally hundreds of intolerant posts on here and say nothing. Probably because I'm worried about being shouted down.

This is part of the problem isn't it? I should speak up.

Does anybody else feel like this or is it just me?

awaits tumbleweed*

The whole trans concept is the disturbing thing.

How is this not a transphobic thing to say?

I'm sick of people dressing up transphobia as "concern about women's rights". It's fear and bigotry dressed up as concern

So you are not concerned that rapists are in women's jails?

Really?

Crikey.

Yes yes YES to lunabody.

Sackrifice

Yep, because you flat out refuse to listen to anything else that doesn't fit your tunnel vision.

And arrogant to think that you know humanity better than the lived experience of someone else.

Oh the irony...

It's a belief system, not a scientific reality. Saying transwomen ARE women is akin to saying wine and wafers ARE the body of Christ. It isn't biological reality.

There's nothing phobic about saying that.

I've never seen a transphobia post on here? No comments nothing. I must have missed something...

It's not a question of science, though, is it? It's a question of tolerance and basic decency.

If you go back to the early days of the MN anti-trans thing, there were blatantly offensive things being posted all over the place. MN started deleting, and now the anti-trans posters have learnt to moderate their language to ensure this didn't happen. It's been really instructive watching this unfold over a period of time actually.

Oh the irony...

I know right? Laughable.

I do actually find a lot of the talking points on some of the trans quite interesting but the tone of some posters makes me so furious I avoid them completely. I've read loads of posts that sound so spiteful and derisive towards trans people generally, and they make me think of my dear trans friend and how upset and hurt she'd be if she came across them... it feels like some posters stop just short of saying the vitriolic things that will get them deleted but you can read between the lines. I'm sure, as usual, my post will be met with the usual mock-dumbfounded "I've NEVER seen such comments". But I only dip in v.occasionally and I've seen em. 🤷

How is this not a transphobic thing to say?

This rapist is a man.

Not a woman.

Anyone who says they think this is a woman is lying.

The disturbing thing is the lies. The gaslighting. The utter disregard for women and girls.

Another big yes to @LunaBody

To those who say people who are trans need psychiatric help because it's not possible for them to have been born in the wrong body - this is the exact argument that used about gay people in the mid 20th century, that they were mentally ill. It's vile. And arrogant to think that you know humanity better than the lived experience of someone else.

This.

Transphobic posts are regularly reported and deleted.

I am incredibly keen to engage with anyone who is prepared to discuss the issue-and I am always polite and considered, and not intolerant. Care to chat?

I'm sick of people dressing up transphobia as "concern about women's rights". It's fear and bigotry dressed up as concern.

Do you believe it’s “fear and bigotry” when people express concerns about transwomen:

1. competing in women’s sport?
2. being housed in female prisons?
3. lesbian who object to having sex with someone with a penis being called “transphobes”?

I really don’t know why so many supporters of those who identify as trans spend time on Mumsnet, if it’s just a bed of transphobia? I genuinely don’t get it. It would almost appear as if they come on here in order to find offence, complain about the transphobia (that they can’t actually find evidence of) then tell us how awful we are for daring to centre females in our feminism. It’s as if they’re trying to guilt trip us or gaslight us into shutting up. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Surely not! 🤔

You want to talk about basic decency, so on twitter and have a look at how TRAs speak about any woman who won't submit. If TW were actually women they'd be held to the same standards as feminists on MN and told to be nicer.

Well I see a lot of posts where people proclaim they utterly reject the idea that somebody could think they were born in the wrong body.

@thetonsillolith, I’ll be absolutely honest. I used to be like you. I used to think ‘if people feel they were born into the wrong body, who are we to question it?’. Then I started to ask myself, actually what does it mean to be born into a gender?

I know I’m a woman because of my sex, but ask me what does it mean to be a woman, and I get a bit confused to be honest. I don’t conform to the stereotype of a woman, in my head I’m a person not my sex. Yet really looking at transgenderism, it seems to be primarily about wanting to live the sociological ‘idea’ of being a woman (or man). Years of wanting to be seen as equal to men are being thrown away over people ‘feeling’ like they’re are some silly notion of what a woman ‘should be’.

You can’t be born into the wrong body, it’s yours to live with. You can dress it up however you want, but it’s still the same one underneath. You can paint strips on a horse, but it will never be a zebra. Telling the truth isn’t ‘phobic’, and explaining science and fact shouldn’t be a crime.

These threads are all identikit.

Haha, I was just thinking the same thing. And round and round we go. Thank goodness we have the stamina for it, it gets very boring. But what else can we do. We will keep asking until we get the answers.

I've been waiting for over 2 years for a definition of the word woman

Transphobic posts are regularly reported and deleted

Not all of them.
A lot of them, yes. A lot are allowed to still stand though.

I'm sick of people dressing up transphobia as "concern about women's rights". It's fear and bigotry dressed up as concern.

I'm sick of people dressing up misogyny as "concern about trans rights". It's fear and bigotry dressed up as concern.

Fixed that for you.

Men can experience feeling born in the wrong body. That doesn't make them a woman. It's makes them a man with gender dysphoria. I want trans people to have the same rights as anyone else. I don't dislike them. I feel sorry for them being so unhappy in their own body. I hope they get all the help they need. I do not however believe they are women. Neither is Rachel dozeal a black woman. To suggest sex/race is a matter of feeling undermimes all the shite actual women and black people go through

Yep, because you flat out refuse to listen to anything else that doesn't fit your tunnel vision

I've probably asked you hundreds of times now, how this change happens.

And all you do is divert the discussion to how I asked. Or accuse me of tunnel vision.

And position yourself as this beacon of forward thinking.

And yet, never explain how this change occurs. None of you can.

Either stand by your views and explain it, or admit there is no explanation and you are just virtue signalling to make yourself appear woke.

This is about men. And the lies that are told in order to get them access to women's spaces.

If you think otherwise then you are a fool.

Don't take the question out of context and put it in a different context to suit your own agenda.

The whole trans concept is the disturbing thing.

How is this not a transphobic thing to say?

I didn't say that calling that specific person a liar was transphobic. I said that calling the whole concept of trans "disturbing" was transphobic.

LimeKiwi
Just out of interest how many transphobic comments on this thread have been deleted. You know, the ones that all disappear when you are unable to prove your point that Mumsnet is a hotbed of transphobia.