To put up and shut up with the transphobia on here?

[thetonsillolith]

I am fully supportive of the LGBTQ community and don't feel it is my position to question or undermine those who believe they were born in the wrong body.

And yet i see literally hundreds of intolerant posts on here and say nothing. Probably because I'm worried about being shouted down.

This is part of the problem isn't it? I should speak up.

Does anybody else feel like this or is it just me?

awaits tumbleweed*

Are you saying that every single M-F trans person tries to force themselves on lesbians?

No, I’m saying that increasingly I am seeing on social media and elsewhere, attempts to slur lesbians as transphobic if they do not want to consider having sex with transwomen.

They are told that not to consider dating transwomen, or having penile sex with one, is transphobic.

There also needs to be awareness that a good number of people claiming trans status don't actually believe they were born in the wrong body. In fact saying you need dysphoria to be trans is now labelled transphobic. Plenty of transwomen seem to like their penises very much, only now they are called lady dick.

HUMANS are imperfect. HUMANS commit crimes.

Trans women do not commit crimes in any greater proportion than other humans.

They do however commit suicide more often, due to the way they are targeted by social prejudice.

Prisons and toilets should be safe for everyone, regardless of their gender orientation.

@AphidEater
Not all of us but can feel that way sometimes on here

The Myra Hindley point is a great one

It isn't a great point - people are not petrified of calling other women murderers 'murderers' after Myra Hindley murdered someone.

Yet again missing the point.

It would be a good point if Myra Hindley had been left to manage and run a school after murdering kids.

This is one of the only places on the internet where it's possible to have a grown-up conversation about things like social contagion affecting adolescents, particularly girls, or to question the narrative that trans people of all kinds are 'fixed' by being allowed to transition and respected in that transition and that any kind of resistance to this is life-endangering hatred. People who are trans generally have a lot of underlying issues that have nothing to do with how they present, just as people who are anorexic aren't usually all that bothered about being thin. The trans kids I know have multiple problems and it's deeply worrying to think that anyone might feel transitioning is the sole answer to them. Anyone with a trans child is entitled to be wary for that child's safety and future happiness, given the physical effects of treatment, and because there are views from both sides here, they are more likely to get honest advice than on a site that concentrates on either a negative or positive approach. However, this entire paragraph would have me tagged as a TERF if I posted it publicly.

There is a huge amount of bad faith arguing ON BOTH SIDES - I certainly don't think all trans people are predators in waiting; I also don't think people who are now being labelled TERF are bigoted haters who literally want to harass trans people to death, both of which are ideas that are suggested very often on Twitter. You cannot have a meaningful discussion if everyone involved is constantly screaming abuse at one another, and that doesn't tend to happen here.

Mumsnet is not a monolith of opinions but it is a place where people can actually talk about this, and disagree, and enlighten, and educate. Feel free to jump in, OP - you won't be shouted down. You might be challenged. But if an ideology won't stand up to being challenged, it may need more thought.

It's not just you OP. I'm totally with you. If anyone can point me in the direction of a more tolerant site, one that actually agrees with the narrative that transmen are men and transwomen are women that'd be much appreciated.

I'm so confused, I don't know if this is sarcasm.

But if you're desperate to chat to people who wholeheartedly believe that liking dresses and lipstick makes you a woman then head over to Twitter and fill your boots. And even better, if a woman dares to say she disagrees, you can send her death threats and then get her banned for her hateful behaviour. It's wonderful, it's all about the love and tolerance.

Are you saying that every single M-F trans person tries to force themselves on lesbians?

For clarity I think we need to agree on these threads that no-one is saying all transwomen are like that. This comes up a lot as a way to avoid acknowledging the risk men pose to women and the fact that they will take advantage of access to female spaces if they can.

If we can agree NAMALT I think we can also agree NATWALT.

Wasn't it Rachel McKinnon, the transwoman who competes in female sport, who said lesbians could get over their sexual hangups and learn to cope with dick?

Trans women do not commit crimes in any greater proportion than other humans.

Well, actually, sex offences in the male community are at about 20% and this rises to about 50% for men who identify as women.

Weird huh?

Trans women do not commit crimes in any greater proportion than other humans.

They commit crimes at the same rates as other males. That's why we have sex segregated spaces. Saying men aren't allowed in women's spaces for women's safety, unless they say the magic words 'I identify as a woman' and then they can come on in no questions asked is a nonsense. How can anyone defend this.

@lunabody couldn't agree more!

I think the problem is that most trans people just want to get on and live their lives in peace. BUT there are a few outspoken TRAs which give trans people a bad name. Likewise there are a few men (in particular it seems) willing to abuse the system and say they identify as a women for less than honest reasons.

This is on the nose. I don't think that men and women can change sex, and I have concerns about predators abusing the system. But most trans people are just looking to live their lives without facing daily intolerance and hostility. Unfortunately there are extremists on both sides who fucking love dishing it out, and this place seems to have become a gathering point for one faction.

I'm sure there are people who believe they were born into the wrong body. That doesn't mean it's true, it's just a belief. What is dangerous is when school kids are allowed to carry such thoughts to the next level, often with irreversible results, when they may change their minds at a later date.

And arrogant to think that you know humanity better than the lived experience of someone else.

Then tell transwomen to stop being so arrogant then. They cannot possibly know what it's like to grow up as a girl with all that that entails. They are born with male privilege and seem to want to retain it. They can have no concept of periods or the menopause.

Daft to think otherwise. Transwomen will never know how it is to be a natal woman. There is a difference and it's stupid to pretend there isn't.

What trans woman has been left to run s school after murdering kids???

Genuinely confused here.

I will happily call a trans woman (like Karen White) a criminal if they have committed a crime, but the vast majority, like the vast majority of cis women, have not.

Being transphobic more often than not is an insult from males to females who happen to not agree with their opinion

And as you can’t biologically change sex the opinion that you can’t change sex is a fact

Women are used to this shit just now we have a bit more power and platforms to air our views rather than changes be made without our considerations being heard - sadly they are often still ignored and we are told we are wrong once again

Same old shit just presented differently male entitlement and misogyny

Unfortunately there are extremists on both sides

Couldn't agree more and I have said as much before and been shouted down.
You're right though

They do however commit suicide more often, due to the way they are targeted by social prejudice

This piece of 'research' has been debunked. It is also against Samaritans good practice to use suicide as a way of coercing people to doing something that they don't want to do. So perhaps not do that any more?

www.transgendertrend.com/the-suicide-myth/

Adults wanting to be or thinking they are a person of the opposite sex, dressing however they wish, changing their body, and being addressed in the pronouns they prefer: no problem.

Problems: loss of previously single sex women’s facilities and services; people with male biology competing in competitions for women - especially but not only sports; people getting pissed off if others don’t want to have sex with them, eg because they don’t want to have sex with someone with a penis. And any unscientific information in education and health interventions affecting DC.

Nobody denies that some people think they are born in the wrong body. But they weren't. Nobody was.

Why are you not disturbed?

I have acknowledged already on this thread that these are real issues to which there are no easy answers. That is not the same as saying that trans is not a real thing, or that it is disturbing though.

How about we treat trans people as we do any other human being and not assume they are guilty until they actually do something wrong?

Also, everyone seems to assume that trans means M-F. I know 4 trans people IRL, 3 of those are actually F-M trans. Or do we just ignore them because it doesn't fit the narrative of trans being a ploy for men to attack women?

I'm sorry sacrifice but Transgender Trend is not a reliable scholarly website for info about trans gender suicide rates.

Sheesh.

What trans woman has been left to run s school after murdering kids???

Hindley murdered kids therefore the analogy of locking a rapist up with women would be similar to if Hindley had been left in charge of kids.

I know it's hard to make connections, after all, look at what you are promoting.

Kids being given hormones, young girls having their breasts bound or removed, kids of both sexes being made sterile.

And this is not disturbing to you?

These threads always go the same way op: the sarcastic "I haven't seen any transphobia on here, what on earth are you talking about?!" from posters who are responsible for said anti-trans rhetoric, when anyone who's even glanced in the direction of feminism chat knows they do nothing BUT talk shit about transgender people.

I've use mumsnet less frequently these days because of it. There's no tolerance of trans people at all on some of the threads; it's full on bigotry disguised as feminism.

Wasn't it Rachel McKinnon, the transwoman who competes in female sport, who said lesbians could get over their sexual hangups and learn to cope with dick?

And also said that women should have no right to dictate that their smear test is not carried out by a person with a penis on the grounds that the penis wasn't doing the smear test. Such beautiful sentiments, spoken by someone who truly understands what it's like to be a lady obviously.