To put up and shut up with the transphobia on here?

[thetonsillolith]

I am fully supportive of the LGBTQ community and don't feel it is my position to question or undermine those who believe they were born in the wrong body.

And yet i see literally hundreds of intolerant posts on here and say nothing. Probably because I'm worried about being shouted down.

This is part of the problem isn't it? I should speak up.

Does anybody else feel like this or is it just me?

awaits tumbleweed*

I’m with you OP.

I don’t know if I am becoming too middle aged, but my tolerance for engaging with the hard of thinking is just getting lower and lower.

Come back when you have learned basic reading skills and how to apply logic.

It's not just you at all @thetonsillolith, but most of us have given up reasoning with the extremist voices as there is no reasoning with them

Come on, there is no 'reasoning'.

Nobody ever explains how a man can change into a woman, what happens to make this change and at what point does this change occur?

Do that and maybe we can talk. But to say there is some reasoning involved is bullshit.

I want to address the comparison to same sex attraction.

I as a straight person experience sexual attraction to men. Of course I 'get' homosexuality because it's the same experiences and feelings I have just directed toward the same sex.

But I do not experince 'feeling like a woman' and neither does any woman I have ever asked. If I did, I would totally believe that people with penises have the same feeling. But do trans women experience this 'feeling of being a woman' when biological women don't?

For me, that's the difference.

I’m with you OP.

And you, please explain how a man can change into a woman, what happens to make this change and at what point does this change occur?

It's not transphobia, it's biology. Science not imagination.

I stand with my lesbian sisters who feel they are being erased by transwomen saying their dicks are lady dicks and they should have sex with them. Lesbians should not be coerced in this way.

If they don't want sex with someone with a dick they should be allowed to say so without being abused.

Do you disagree, OP?

Lesbians who don't do dick are lesbians who don't do dick.

Lesbians who don't do dick are lesbians. That’s all that was needed. But, according to the TRA narrative they are actually bigots.

I agree with OP. I find it really disturbing how dismissive people on here are of the whole trans concept. I'll freely admit I don't really understand the idea of being born in the wrong body because it's so far outside of my personal experience, but I accept that for some people this is a very real thing and respect their right to be whoever they feel they are.

I think there are parallels with sexuality and the hate/fear/lack of understanding shown towards homosexuals. Again that is something outside my personal experience that I struggle to get my head around, but I still accept and respect people feel what they feel and they have the right to love whoever they want to. I'm not about to start denying it as a possibility or saying that they need mental health treatment so they stop feeling that way.

I understand that there are issues with sports and safe places for women etc. and there are no easy answers, but that doesn't mean that being trans is not a real thing.

It's not just you OP. I'm totally with you. If anyone can point me in the direction of a more tolerant site, one that actually agrees with the narrative that transmen are men and transwomen are women that'd be much appreciated.

Oh get off the bloody fence. You’ll get splinters in your arse.

Or, if you don't feel up to the inevitable pile on if you do say something, at least report any you do see.

Extremist voices= science and material reality apparently.

The real 'extremists' are those who think you can magically change sex and that some women have penises. Seriously, how can you say any of it with a straight face? You sound like flat earthers.

It's not just you OP. I'm totally with you. If anyone can point me in the direction of a more tolerant site, one that actually agrees with the narrative that transmen are men and transwomen are women that'd be much appreciated.

Karen White, the rapist in the pic above - woman? or man?

I notice that OP once putting the cat amongst the pigeons hasn't posted again. Journalist!

On Mumsnet holding the view that transwomen are women, or transmen are men is not tolerated, which i find very disheartening.

Luzina help me out here. Do you honestly believe, hand on heart, swear on all things you hold dear, that transwomen are women. Actual women - no different to all the other women in the world? Physically the same?

SarahH12 - twitter 👋

How can you put up AND shut up? You either call out things you think are wrong, or you shut up about them, that's what the expression 'put up or shut up' means - it's exactly what you'd say to someone who accuses people of something, but never comes up with the evidence, just like you're doing. so you need to put up, or shut up.

If you think posts are transphobic, then report them. If you realise that actually the majority are just disagreeing with the idea of someone changing sex, not advocating any sort of hatred, discrimination, or removal of human rights, then you may realise that it's not transphobia.

These threads are all identikit.
Is that three in AIBU just today?
All saying exactly the same thing, on loop.
YANBU, at all OP.
At least it's a bit more refreshing to see more voices that usually stay quiet, and more tolerant when it's away from the FWR echo chamber.

I feel the same way as you OP. I've tried to engage but the anti-trans sentiment is so strong, there's no point. It's the very definition of an echo-chamber.

MN's definition of what constitutes transphobia is quite narrow, so thread after thread characterising trans women as men who are threatening women's spaces is allowed to stand.

One Lgbt-friendly MNer suggested once that trans-allies on MN should adopt some kind of general sentence such as 'I support the rights of trans people' and the posters could just come on to a thread and post that sentence in a gesture of solidarity, without engaging further. I quite liked that idea.

I love MN but I avoid trans threads like the plague because they bear no relation to the feminism I practise and teach or to the trans and non-binary people I know in real life.

Violence is abhorrent and I unreservedly condemn the (very slim minority of) trans women who engage in criminal behaviour, just I condemn any gay or straight cis person who engages in criminal behaviour. But on MN these people are often held to be representative of trans women as a whole. It's just not true, and yes, it is transphobia.

Trans women are women who are welcome in my home, my workplace and my classroom.

So you think this is a woman do you? And fine to be in a woman's prison?

If one person lies about being homosexual does that mean that there's no such thing as homosexuality?

Saying I believe that there is such a thing as trans doesn't mean I believe that everyone who claims to be trans is trans. And yes that does make for some difficult situations.

It's not just you OP. I'm totally with you. If anyone can point me in the direction of a more tolerant site, one that actually agrees with the narrative that transmen are men and transwomen are women that'd be much appreciated.

Some people believe that on MN, but on here we are allowed to debate. Are you actually saying you want a site where disagreement isn't allowed? I believe Digital Spy shuts down every discussion on trans issues in case anyone posts an unacceptable thought, maybe that would suit you?

I completely avoid the Feminism section now because it's so anti-trans.

To those who say people who are trans need psychiatric help because it's not possible for them to have been born in the wrong body - this is the exact argument that used about gay people in the mid 20th century, that they were mentally ill. It's vile. And arrogant to think that you know humanity better than the lived experience of someone else.

I'm sick of people dressing up transphobia as "concern about women's rights". It's fear and bigotry dressed up as concern.

Xposted! Funny that both limekiwi and I used the word echo-chamber.

These threads are all identikit.

Yes they are, not one of you can ever explain how this miraculous change happens no matter how often we ask.