Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To put up and shut up with the transphobia on here?

999 replies

thetonsillolith · 08/06/2019 17:18

I am fully supportive of the LGBTQ community and don't feel it is my position to question or undermine those who believe they were born in the wrong body.

And yet i see literally hundreds of intolerant posts on here and say nothing. Probably because I'm worried about being shouted down.

This is part of the problem isn't it? I should speak up.

Does anybody else feel like this or is it just me?

awaits tumbleweed*

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Namechangeforthiscancershit · 08/06/2019 17:29

Do you report all these posts you see?

KittensinaBlender · 08/06/2019 17:29

Well I see a lot of posts where people proclaim they utterly reject the idea that somebody could think they were born in the wrong body.

How is that not transphobia?

Because a phobia is a fear and/or hatred of something. Disagreeing with the totally unevidenced claim that a person can be "born in the wrong boy" is neither fearful nor hateful.

DavidBowiesBulge · 08/06/2019 17:29

How can you reject that someone believes something?
Many people reject the concept of being born in the wrong body.

That really has nothing to do with sexuality and can't and shouldn't be compared.

IvanaPee · 08/06/2019 17:29

And how utterly lazy it is to equate gender identity to sexual orientation.

Gender is just gender. Sex is biology.

There’s no such thing as being born in the wrong body. A body is just a body. How you choose to live/dress/behave is entirely up to you and nothing to do with a body part.

Nobody has ever been able to tell me what “identifying as a woman” actual is.

I’m a woman because I have a vulva. Not because I like to wear dresses.

NoSquirrels · 08/06/2019 17:30

Well I see a lot of posts where people proclaim they utterly reject the idea that somebody could think they were born in the wrong body.

How is that not transphobia?

What hate crime am I committing by believing something different?

If I don’t believe that Jesus literally died for our sins and rise again, am I committing a hate crime?

If I abused people for their beliefs then fair enough. But I’m not doing that. I’m just going about my life’s with a different set of beliefs to someone else.

Please report hate speech - no one wants that on MN.

spugzbunny · 08/06/2019 17:33

I'm with you but it feels like I'm the only one. I also think that often children are pushed in to a trans identity at an age when many children are pushing the boundaries of gender norms and that doesn't necessarily mean they are trans. But I find mumsnet to be very anti trans altogether. Too black and white. I'm going to get shredded for this though

S1naidSucks · 08/06/2019 17:33

You couldn't and wouldn't say you utterly reject the idea that somebody could love somebody of the same sex as them.

Does that include lesbians with dicks? Serious question, OP. Lesbians are being told that they’re trans bigots and reefs for not wanting to sleep with people with penises. Do you believe that sex and gender are the same thing? Do you believe that women should sleep with those who call themselves women but retain a penis?

HelenRivington · 08/06/2019 17:34

I totally reject the idea that there is a god and yet manage to treat people of all faiths with respect

Yes but if you were asked if you believe in god and you said no and people rounded on you and called you a Godphobe and told you that you were guilty of LITERAL VIOLENCE for not going along with their beliefs you’d probably get a bit pissed off.

Icantreachthepretzels · 08/06/2019 17:35

Well I see a lot of posts where people proclaim they utterly reject the idea that somebody could think they were born in the wrong body.

I don't think people reject the idea that people think they were born in the wrong body - they reject the idea that they should have to accept it as material reality. After all - accepting the idea that it is actually scientifically possible to be born 'in the wrong body' presupposes the existence of a soul that is separate from the body and that furthermore these souls are gendered (according to current and geographical measures of gender e.g likes dresses and long hair and high heels).

Gender is a social construct which many people reject as oppressive. Souls are a quasi religious construct which many people reject as being unscientific. Therefore insisting people accept and embrace both these constructs in order to accept the 'born in the wrong body' narrative - and labelling them phobic if they don't - is oppressive and deeply unreasonable.

That is not the same as saying some people are not deeply unhappy with the sexed body they have been born with and wish they had the other type of body.*

It's a nuanced difference but definitely a difference.

however just because somebody is unhappy with something still doesn't change material reality. Disliking having been born male, even wishing desperately one were female, does not* make one female. People in this situation deserve compassion and support to help them deal with the trauma of hating their own bodies - but they don't deserve the right to remove women's hard won sex based rights in order to make them feel better.

Fairenuff · 08/06/2019 17:35

I think you need to define what your understanding of transphobia is. If you thinks it's people not agreeing that humans can change sex then that's not transphobia, it's a difference of opinion. Once that's actually backed by science too. Or do you think GCSE biology books are transphobic?

Hoppinggreen · 08/06/2019 17:36

I know that some people believe they were born in the wrong body, I don’t agree with them and I am under no obligation to do so.
I am under no obligation to agree with anyone’s beliefs and that is not any kind of phobia or hatred

S1naidSucks · 08/06/2019 17:37

spugzbunny, do you realise that what you have just said will actually have you lumped in with the rest of us ‘transphobes’? You must believe that children have the right to medically and irretrievably change their bodies to suit their wishes or you will be classed as a transphobe. Welcome to GC feminism.

NoSquirrels · 08/06/2019 17:37

Well I see a lot of posts where people proclaim they utterly reject the idea that somebody could think they were born in the wrong body.

Actually, I think you’d genuinely struggle to find a post where someone says this - that’s they utterly reject that someone else could think that they’d been born in the wrong body.

Of course people think that.

You will find people “utterly rejecting” that it could be possible - because there’s no proof. It’s a belief. Much like religion.

Everyone is free to choose what to believe.

TurboTeddy · 08/06/2019 17:37

HelenRivington that was my point, sorry if it wasn't clear.

Butchyrestingface · 08/06/2019 17:37

I am fully supportive of the LGBTQ community and don't feel it is my position to question or undermine those who believe they were born in the wrong body.

Many of them don’t feel they were born in the “wrong body” and would regard your comments as highly transphobic.

Get behind me, Satan. ✝️

Luzina · 08/06/2019 17:37

I agree with you OP. On Mumsnet holding the view that transwomen are women, or transmen are men is not tolerated, which i find very disheartening.

sackrifice · 08/06/2019 17:38

Well I see a lot of posts where people proclaim they utterly reject the idea that somebody could think they were born in the wrong body. How is that not transphobia?

Rejecting the idea that someone else can think something is not a phobia.
But nobody is born in the wrong body. Everyone is born into their own body. It's the only one they have and will ever have.

Anyway - can you please answer the question about lesbians and how if they don't do dick, they are apparently transphobic. Thanks.

ShitAtScarbble · 08/06/2019 17:38

@IvanaPee - your post up there at 17:29:57 might be the most concise and sensible factual unarguable post on this matter that I have ever read.
Really what you have said there should be the beginning and the end of the discussion.

Gorse · 08/06/2019 17:38

..."they utterly reject the Idea that somebody could think they were born in the wrong body"...

On the contrary, I can easily believe that some people THINK they're in the wrong body. But that's not to say they really are.

I'm not happy with the term Transphobia, tbh, because no one has any reason to fear transpeople (except when they're wearing masks and welding baseball bats) but I do fear the erosion of women's right to privacy, dignity and safety.

LimeKiwi · 08/06/2019 17:38

@TheTonsillolith YABU if you put up and shut up as you say.
Call it out every damn time.
It's hard, it does get personal from some, but the more people speak up the more it makes others feel able to in my opinion.

S1naidSucks · 08/06/2019 17:39

Luzina, can you please tell me how thinking that you are of the other sex, actually changes your physical being on a genetic level?

sackrifice · 08/06/2019 17:39

On Mumsnet holding the view that transwomen are women, or transmen are men is not tolerated, which i find very disheartening.

How can a man turn into a woman exactly? What happens to make this change and at what point does this change occur?

Luzina · 08/06/2019 17:40

Lesbians who don't do dick are lesbians who don't do dick. They're not transphobic. Have sex with who you want have sex with.

NoBaggyPants · 08/06/2019 17:40

It's not just you at all @thetonsillolith, but most of us have given up reasoning with the extremist voices as there is no reasoning with them. Just block the Feminism board. Sadly Mumsnet is known for tolerating transphobia dressed up as "protecting women's rights", even when the bigoted intent behind the posts is clear.

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 08/06/2019 17:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

Join Mumsnet Log In

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.