Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Transgender relative, don't know where to start...

305 replies

NameChangerAmI · 08/06/2019 11:35

Deliberately haven't posted in feminism, and don't want any haters, please.

Someone in my family (we are quite close, I love this person very much,) is trans (male to female transition).

We were having a conversation the other week, in which it was stated, as a fact, that this person has always been a girl/woman, and was just born in the wrong body.

I don't agree that either this person has ever been a "girl/woman" or ever will be a woman. I respect diversity more than many, but really wanted to say, "transwoman, not woman," but just felt that it was too controversial and goady.

I'm not very up to date with all trans issues and terminology. I think if I disagree about anything else, we would have a reasoned discussion and agree to disagree, but I know from previous comments and discussions that if I state my case, I'll be seen as wrong, not understanding, being ignorant, etc, and the problem will lie with me.

Not sure what I'm asking, but wanted to hear wide ranging views.

Would you just let it go, or approach it next time this issue comes up in conversation?

OP posts:
GCAcademic · 08/06/2019 12:18

A person is what they feel they are

So everyone can simply demand that society treats them according to their subjective feelings? That’s going to work well, isn’t it? A woman isn’t just a feeling in a male person’s head. We exist in a discernible biological form.

FreckledLeopard · 08/06/2019 12:20

Honestly I think that would be the end of my relationship with them. I was always very lefty and welcoming in my views and knew various FTM individuals from mixing in similar LGBT circles. That's changed in light of the behaviour of the transactivists and their encroachment of women's rights. I'm now firmly gender critical and sick to death of the cliche of transitioning middle aged men.

So in light of that, and in light of the importance of logic, I couldn't spend time with someone who insisted they were 'in the wrong body' or 'had always been a woman'. Are they going to take a commensurate pay cut then, and suddenly taken on the general burdens of childcare/elderly care/cleaning etc that most women are saddled with Hmm. So that would be the end of that relationship, family or not.

Mummyoflittledragon · 08/06/2019 12:20

I wouldn’t tell them my real thoughts, no.... I also wouldn’t let them use them in their fantasy. Agreed.

I also think the age of the person has a massive bearing. Someone, who is clearly an autogynephile is very different from a child. And different again someone, who wants a sex change. The overwhelmingly majority of transwomen change gender and keep their penis for example.

Aphid
That’s a misrepresentation of the EA 2010.

AgentJohnson · 08/06/2019 12:21

Why do you feel the need to keep stating your case? There’s a lot of things that members of my family talk about where and I just smile but scream on the inside ‘hell no’.

For all your family member’s struggles and I assume there have been many, it doesn’t mean you have to be lectured to. If she can’t accept the ‘lets agree to disagree’ comprise then I would be less inclined to spend time with the.

TheTitOfTheIceberg · 08/06/2019 12:26

Monopolising everyone's attention with their transgender journey sounds somewhat narcissistic.

No more so than a new parent who can talk about nothing other than their baby...it's not exactly unusual for people who have undergone huge change in their life to become temporarily obsessed with it and with talking about it.

NotACleverName · 08/06/2019 12:26

Honestly I think that would be the end of my relationship with them.

Unless they’ve espoused views that you personally disagree with, cutting off a family member because they’re FTM is a fucking shitty thing to do. It says more about you than it does about them.

NotACleverName · 08/06/2019 12:27

*Or MTF, rather.

Whosorrynow · 08/06/2019 12:29

I have the impression that the overriding aim of the transgender person is to 'pass' as a member of the gender with which they now identify
That being the case wouldn't they want to just quietly get on with living as a woman rather than continually drawing attention to the fact that they have recently transitioned from man to woman?

Jodie571 · 08/06/2019 12:32

No positive outcome to saying something so I’d leave it alone.

However, if you ever get asked your opinion I’d be honest. If someone asks an opinion they have to be prepared for the answer.

But I don’t see the need for you to comment unless you are asked. You would be causing unnecessary upset

Original poster
NameChangerAmI · 08/06/2019 12:32

Thanks everyone. Sorry if I've offended anyone on the feminist boardsBlush

I'm going to read through the comments again - I've got a lot to learn.

OP posts:
FreckledLeopard · 08/06/2019 12:32

They would have espoused views that I personally disagree with. I personally disagree that a man can become a woman or that human beings can change sex. And I don't believe in men deliberately seeking out and accessing women's sex segregated spaces because of some 'feeling'.

CallMeRachel · 08/06/2019 12:34

Just out of interest, and for context, what age is this person OP?

TheRedBarrows · 08/06/2019 12:34

OP your relative is an individual with an individual journey and you can continue to love them and enjoy their company, and respect their own feelings and need to live as a woman without making that individual the anvil in which you hone your own political beliefs.

You are, however, just as entitled to express your own feelings. You are entitled , for example, to say ‘I do have a difficulty with TW in women’s sports because whatever we believe and know about gender, biology has a bearing in physical strength ‘ or whatever.

Listen to her views and feelings with respect, she is talking from her experience. But that shouldn’t mean you have to suppress your feelings and experience. Once you feel you cannot speak the relationship is pretty pointless anyway.

Dungeondragon15 · 08/06/2019 12:36

Mind your own business and let it go.Who cares what you think regarding whether this person has ever been women?

PencilsInSpace · 08/06/2019 12:36

Unless they’ve espoused views that you personally disagree with ...

They have though, haven't they? OP said:

We were having a conversation the other week, in which it was stated, as a fact, that this person has always been a girl/woman, and was just born in the wrong body.

And she said she doesn't agree. And according to other posters she has no right to say she doesn't agree, she must STFU in case this person kills themself and it'll all be her fault.

Fuck that shit. I couldn't be around that type of emotional blackmail.

I'd quietly distance myself OP. It's amazing how busy you can be at this time of year. Let them find someone else - a true believer in ladybrain - to support them in their stunning and brave journey.

LenizarLyublyu · 08/06/2019 12:37

I would make it clear to my parents and grandparents (if one of them was transitioning) that I do not accept their new identity. If it were an aunt/uncle the same. My sister apparently now wants to be a non-binary man called Noah - not going to happen, never going to call them that, in my head they will always be a girl. Although, tbh, my mum would get the most shit for being a lesbophobic monster that has probably helped sway her identity.

NotACleverName · 08/06/2019 12:38

There's no evidence that the OP's relative is doing that (accessing women's sex-segregated spaces), though.

It's bold of you to admit that you're a terrible person, @FreckledLeopard.

PencilsInSpace · 08/06/2019 12:38

Once you feel you cannot speak the relationship is pretty pointless anyway.

In a nutshell.

Duster12 · 08/06/2019 12:42

They know they aren't a proper woman, prob trying to get you to validate them. In one ear...

charlestonchaplin · 08/06/2019 12:43

AphidEater is wrong, though it isn’t surprising he/she has been influenced by the misinformation campaign carried out by Stonewall, Mermaids and others trying to get self-ID into law. The Equality Act prohibits discrimination against those proposing to undergo gender reassignment. They should be treated the same as others of the same sex, not denied promotion or sacked, for example. It doesn’t say they should be treated as the sex they wish they were!

Only those with a GRC should usually be treated according to their legal sex, but even here exceptions can be made if they are proportionate and necessary to achieve a particular aim. So a female-only exercise class set up to increase exercise participation among conservative Muslim women could exclude transwomen because if males were to attend, the Muslim women wouldn’t. This is especially the case if other exercise opportunities are available to transwomen.

BettysLeftTentacle · 08/06/2019 12:43

I understand OP. I have a close relative that disclosed they were transgender (male to female) to us last year. I didn’t really think anything of it and just said ‘ok, whatever makes you happy’, that is until in a conversation they referred to me as a cis-woman. I had to calmly explain thy I wasn’t a cis-woman because I didn’t identify as a cis-woman, I identify as a woman. I said that just because they feel they need to be redefined, I don’t and I’d appreciate it if they didn’t do that again as I feel it’s just another way of being put in my place. I don’t think they got it completely, why would they? As of yet, they’ve not experienced any discrimination against their sex or gender or faced misogyny but I wouldn’t have been able to continue a relationship with them if I hadn’t made my feelings clear.

In your case, I don’t think you can say anything about your worries. I think all you can do is keep quiet until it directly affects you.

JessicaWakefieldSV · 08/06/2019 12:43

This isn’t a trans related story, but I think it’s similar to the difficult position you feel you’re in.

My older sister was a prostitute and stripper. She knows I am strongly against the buying and selling of women’s bodies. She told nobody else in the family for 8 years but me, I had to not just keep it secret but also go along with a made up story about what she did do. I hate lying, I never lie. So it was a big deal for me to lie to my mother. I did so, to be kind and supportive & so as not to appear judgemental to my sister. Eventually everyone else came to know. However, my sister never once thought of me or my beliefs. She insisted on always talking about it, she discussed her job, clients, the sex industry itself, all the time. It became the main thing she talked about around me and my DH. Even though she knew my feelings. I tried hard to be tactful, diplomatic and non judgemental to spare her feelings, despite the fact she knew my own beliefs were strongly against the sex industry itself- not her or any other individual but the industry. She even asked me to go along and watch her strip for money. I grew tired of this and asked several times for her to not bring it up around me, or talk about the men in the clubs etc etc that we should avoid the topic because we felt so differently and I could no longer keep my opinion to myself when she certainly didn’t. Lots of conversations that were heated followed, her lack of confidence was all my fault because I wouldn’t support her work etc In the end we fell out and her anger at my opinion being different to hers, turned into quite nasty aggressive behaviour. We no longer speak.

It’s all well and good for others to tell you to keep your opinions to yourself and prioritise the relative, but it’s actually hard to go along with other people’s beliefs, especially if they keep shoving it in your face and insisting on talking about it until you agree with them. You’re allowed to talk about your beliefs too. My advice would be to avoid it as much as possible, not raise it yourself but also don’t say things you don’t believe, or accept labels you reject. It is absolutely possible to be respectful and kind with relatives, while understanding each other have different views on some things. I come from a large catholic family and I’m atheist, we all avoid discussions on religion out of mutual love and respect. That however, takes both parties. Your trans relative deserves respect, but so do you. I wish you luck, I hope you can find a way to love and enjoy each other’s company without this being a problem.

FreckledLeopard · 08/06/2019 12:43

If believing in logic and chromosomes makes me a terrible person then I'll just have to suck it up, won't I? But I'm not going to throw women under a bus like so many woke handmaidens are happy to do.

FudgeBrownie2019 · 08/06/2019 12:44

A person is what they feel they are

Is biology nothing to do with what a person is now? Is it all based solely on feelings?

Pencilcase123 · 08/06/2019 12:44

You do not do your relative any favours by indulging their make believe.