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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Transgender relative, don't know where to start...

305 replies

NameChangerAmI · 08/06/2019 11:35

Deliberately haven't posted in feminism, and don't want any haters, please.

Someone in my family (we are quite close, I love this person very much,) is trans (male to female transition).

We were having a conversation the other week, in which it was stated, as a fact, that this person has always been a girl/woman, and was just born in the wrong body.

I don't agree that either this person has ever been a "girl/woman" or ever will be a woman. I respect diversity more than many, but really wanted to say, "transwoman, not woman," but just felt that it was too controversial and goady.

I'm not very up to date with all trans issues and terminology. I think if I disagree about anything else, we would have a reasoned discussion and agree to disagree, but I know from previous comments and discussions that if I state my case, I'll be seen as wrong, not understanding, being ignorant, etc, and the problem will lie with me.

Not sure what I'm asking, but wanted to hear wide ranging views.

Would you just let it go, or approach it next time this issue comes up in conversation?

OP posts:

MrsMiggins37 · 08/06/2019 11:52

But as things stand, I’d just let her think and say what she likes. As long as it isn’t going to harm anyone else. If how she lived her life started to negatively impact women then I might say something

FriarTuck · 08/06/2019 11:52

You relative is covered by the Equalities Act 2010, her rights are enshrined in law.
We do still have freedom of speech don't we? So OP can express HER opinion in a polite manner? Or do we have to blindly accept the opinion of someone as fact if they're transsexual? Otherwise who decides whose opinion under the Act trumps whose?

MaxNormal · 08/06/2019 11:52

you're attempting to justify your own prejudices and bigotry this is why having a reasoned debate is impossible.
Any questioning of the transgender ideology, any niggling doubt that someone is a "woman" even though they are clearly not, and the accusations of bigotry and prejudice start flying.

Justbreathing · 08/06/2019 11:53

@ButterflyBitch
If you disagreed with sperm donation and your sister who you love, desperate for a baby went down that route. Would you genuinely tell them your strong views on it. Or would you keep that shit to yourself and be happy that they’re no longer deeply unhappy.
It’s not about pussyfooting

AnActualWoman · 08/06/2019 11:54

Although as a pp said if they started going in about cis etc I'd take that as an invitation to debate and would respond in kind.

eurochick · 08/06/2019 11:54

@UnicornBrexit that's not correct unless this person has transitioned to the extent required by the Equality Act. The EA does not protect self-identifying transgender people.

MaxNormal · 08/06/2019 11:54

There's a huge difference between "disagreeing with sperm donation" (I didn't even know what was a thing) and having the entitlement not to be gaslit into believing that black is white, quite frankly.

everythingthelighttouches · 08/06/2019 11:55

OP you don't mention whether this person is a child or an adult. It would make a difference to me. And also the effect of this on other members of your family, particularly children.

TinselAngel · 08/06/2019 11:55

I'm a trans widow and have another trans person in my extended family.

I'm a gender critical feminist, but I don't discuss it around the trans family member. If you're extended family, it's your job to support them.

I do like to think though that the trans person's Mum is aware enough of my opinions that she might be able to talk to me if she needs a break from all the stunning and brave stuff.

RubberTreePlant · 08/06/2019 11:55

Deliberately haven't posted in feminism, and don't want any haters, please.

Are you conflating feminism with 'hate'? Seems odd when you're expressing a rational GC feminist analysis.

LittleMissCwtch · 08/06/2019 11:57

I think if you post on the feminism board you are likely to get a similar view but perhaps less harsh responses.

I think you are perfectly entitled to have that view but I agree that it's not going to do any good to say anything to the person. I have my opinions and they are not dissimilar to yours, and in a general discussion I would air them but wouldn't say it to a trans person.

Trans people have a right to feel what they feel, and we have a right to feel what we feel, ie I personally don't believe a trans woman is a woman, you can't change biology, but I can understand they identify as a woman and would refer to them as she and their chosen name.

ILoveMaxiBondi · 08/06/2019 11:58

Transgender people already have massive suicide and attempted suicide rates.

Do you have those stats handy?

Original poster

NameChangerAmI · 08/06/2019 11:58

In your shoes I'd start with a bit of education in the matter, then you wont be controversial and goady.

From reading what you've written, you're attempting to justify your own prejudices and bigotry. You relative is covered by the Equalities Act 2010, her rights are enshrined in law.

I have been completely supportive and continue to be so. I object to being called prejudiced and a bigot, I don't think my opinions equate to me being either of those things.

OP posts:

HiJenny35 · 08/06/2019 11:59

"An actual woman" even your user name is pathetic. I don't know it. That's simply your opinion. What because you have the right bits between your legs your a woman? What happened if they tested your hormone levels and you were in the make range? Your chromosomes aren't tested at birth what if they came back differing to what you'd always consider yourself? The chromosomal make up of an egg has huge irregularities you don't believe that at any point some of these developing eggs start as one and then develop with errors meaning a person can be female with a male visual appearance. So athelets who have the right femal anatomy from birth who have male hormone levels are still female? I honestly believed outdated views like these no longer existed. A person is what they feel they are not what's hanging between their legs. Please don't spout your rubbish as "everyone knows it" not everyone agrees with you thank god you're not related to this poor woman who is going through the ordeal of having to handle being born in the wrong body.

Fallofrain · 08/06/2019 12:00

I agree with the sperm donation analogy.

Im gay, people might not agree with my choice to ttc for example and some of my family members dont. In some rare circumstance i would be happy to have a conversation with the ethics gentley, however most conversations are attacking and derogatory. They are simply point scoring and ill have no part of.

AnActualWoman · 08/06/2019 12:00

Op if you need educating on this matter I believe they are covering male/female biology etc in key stage 1, I'll see if I can dig out some of the DC's homework for you ;)

Throckmorton · 08/06/2019 12:01

I wouldn't mention it. Be supportive and sympathise with what they are going through.

To other posters though - of course you can't be born in the wrong body - it's not like the body is created and a brain is dropped into it at the last minute. You can of course have body dysmorphia, which is very distressing to the person and makes them feel as though they have been put in the wrong body.

Re another previous poster, the suicide stats regarding transgender people have been repeatedly debunked.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/06/2019 12:01

I'd try to avoid the subject, but I couldn't lie and say I agreed with something that is biologically impossible

I'd certainly use their preferred pronouns and new name; that's just being kind

Probably their constant talking about being really a woman means they realise this themself

My mum's side of the family are v religious; they believe Genesis is the literal truth from god
and one cousin kept bringing this up whenever we met and being very emotional that I agreed
I am now NC with her, as I just got fed up with the hysteria and the insistence that I deny science

AphidEater · 08/06/2019 12:01

The EA does not protect self-identifying transgender people.

Yes it does. It’s very frustrating that people persist in misunderstanding this, but people have had the right to use the toilets / changing rooms etc of the gender with which they identify since 2010 (and they have never had to show that they have medically or legally transitioned to do so).

It’s one of the odd things about the current furore about self ID and changing rooms. It feels like people are suddenly anxious about something which has been the settled legal position for a decade.

Anyway - that’s slightly off topic here. I think that fundamentally whatever one’s feelings are about trans people, there’s not much justification for challenging a trans person that you love on how they perceive and talk about themselves.

Fairenuff · 08/06/2019 12:02

I wouldn't tell them my real thoughts, no.

I also wouldn't let them use me in their fantasy.

So I would change the subject whenever it came up for example.

I wouldn't want to get into a discussion where I couldn't say what I thought.

AnnaMagnani · 08/06/2019 12:03

Trouble is, whenever we get together, it all becomes about her transgender journey - I get that it's all consuming to live it, but it seems to be at the exclusion of everyone and everything else

If you want to get on, this is ultimately going to be tedious. It would be the same if she only ever talked about cycling, or trains, or her amazing PFB.

In my personal life, I'm gender critical but in my work life I've had some great trans colleagues because we got on with work and talked about normal stuff - like where we were going on holiday, what was on TV, that sort of thing.

You don't have to be her support person about the trans stuff and you can change the subject to other things.

Throckmorton · 08/06/2019 12:03

HiJenny35 - you're mixing up transgender with intersex - they are not the same thing

ILoveMaxiBondi · 08/06/2019 12:05

A person is what they feel they are

Umm. No.

Is Rachel Dolezal a black woman?

Is rapist, Karen white a woman?

CallMeRachel · 08/06/2019 12:05

This person will already be well aware that they will never have female body parts or reproductive organs. I don't think pointing it out or using the word Trans will go well.

If this is a close family member who you love just listen and support them in their journey.

You can not possibly know what has been going on in their mind before they came out as a woman.

Throckmorton · 08/06/2019 12:06

AphidEater - really? The EA protected characteristics are sex, and people with a GRC - not self-ID

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