Transgender relative, don't know where to start...

[NameChangerAmI]

Deliberately haven't posted in feminism, and don't want any haters, please.

Someone in my family (we are quite close, I love this person very much,) is trans (male to female transition).

We were having a conversation the other week, in which it was stated, as a fact, that this person has always been a girl/woman, and was just born in the wrong body.

I don't agree that either this person has ever been a "girl/woman" or ever will be a woman. I respect diversity more than many, but really wanted to say, "transwoman, not woman," but just felt that it was too controversial and goady.

I'm not very up to date with all trans issues and terminology. I think if I disagree about anything else, we would have a reasoned discussion and agree to disagree, but I know from previous comments and discussions that if I state my case, I'll be seen as wrong, not understanding, being ignorant, etc, and the problem will lie with me.

Not sure what I'm asking, but wanted to hear wide ranging views.

Would you just let it go, or approach it next time this issue comes up in conversation?

You can't use that word here OP. It's basically an insulting name given to anyone who doesn't believe humans can change sex.

OP, please don't believe the propaganda (and that it what it is) that feminists who raise concerns about the (very recent) version of trans ideology and trans activism are haters. Apart from anything, that language is leading to some activists feeling emboldened to physically attack, intimidate, and harass women who raise concerns.

We just raise concerns that replacing sex segregation with gender segregation has serious and potentially dangerous implications for women and girls. And there have been cases which we predicted, such as a double rapist being housed in a women's prison (which makes perfect sense if you are what you say you are, as at least one PP argued).

A person is what they feel they are

I feel I should be able to fly, sprinkle fairy-dust on ships and make them fly too, and physically turn red with fury whenever there's another female in the vicinity.

Can I be Tinkerbell, please?

Sorry, but what are "TERFs"?

Trans-exclusionary radical feminists. Used to refer to the likes of Germaine Greer. Now a term of insult which seems to refer to any challenge, no matter how well- or sensitively-articulated, that challenges the trans rights activists' dominant narrative (i.e. transwomen are women, and have the full right to use women's spaces, be rape counsellors, participate in women's sport, etc).

I would try to do stuff with the relative. So shopping, cinema, walks, whatever interests you share. Intimate one to one chats over coffee are more likely to stray onto difficult ground. Like anyone, take your time getting to know them, she is after all a 'new' version of her old self.

If you are straight and your husband transitions that makes you a lesbian. He gets to define that, not you. If you disagree that would make you transphobic.

If it wasn't being taken so seriously by all governments and lawmakers I'd laugh at it.

Let it go, you already know it won't end well so why go there?

I share your issues, OP, my brother became a sister. Like you, I do not believe she was always a woman, or is now a woman. But not in a cruel way. I read this somewhere and it rings true for me:

"Transwomen are transwomen - they are male at a biological level but wish to opt out of the gender expectations of masculinity. That's fine - fully supportive. There is nothing at all wrong with being a transwoman.

Transwomen are not women though. Why pretend otherwise? Why be ashamed of the trans prefix? There is no harm or shame in being trans so own that prefix as a badge of honour."

Tread carefully, but if there is no hate, how can you be hateful? If your relative is allowed an opinion, why are you silenced? When you are not allowed to speak plainly, you are diminished and your relationship with your relative is dishonest.

Just my opinion.

Fairenuff: If you are straight and your husband transitions that makes you a lesbian. He gets to define that, not you. If you disagree that would make you transphobic.

It's some of their rhetoric surrounding lesbians that really does bother me. Particularly that which states that a lesbian should be forced to accept transwomen with penises as fellow-lesbians, and worse, be forced to accept sex with them against her will.

Any lesbian who objects to this lazy categorization - not least language which sounds far to reminiscent of rape, coercion at best, and a continuation of the rhetoric of female subjugation - is a transphobe.

This goes far beyond a transgression of women rights, and lodges firmly within the category of abuse. LGBTQ is not a catch-all term when the rights of one group are so clearly subordinated to those of another who have cynically appropriated their cause. It's sickening.

Namechanger
Surely the only thing that matters is do you love and care for this person?
If yes; then sorry the only thing you can do is bite your tongue and just support them.
If the person in question was
Gay, lesbian or decided to become a different religion or marry someone different would you tell them they are wrong?

I work with 2 post op females, both say they have always felt like should be female.
One stills says it was the op or she would have killed herself.
Both are brilliant people.
Live and let live I say.

But my best friend hung himself because his parents hated gays

"Born in the wrong body" is total nonsense OP, but it's that person's attempt to say why they can't meet the gender stereotypes around them. They're trying to interpret absolutely everything about themselves in terms of gender, as an explanation for why they felt like they were different, and to validate themselves.

Are they on the spectrum at all? There's a high rate of ASD young people falling for all this - and coupled with the way we get really obsessive interests, it could easily be all they talk about for quite some time to come.

It might be worth practicing your patient face and just trying to change the topic sometimes to something else they used to love?

The EA does not protect self-identifying transgender people.

Yes it does. It’s very frustrating that people persist in misunderstanding this, but people have had the right to use the toilets / changing rooms etc of the gender with which they identify since 2010 (and they have never had to show that they have medically or legally transitioned to do so).

This is incorrect.

See Equality Act 2010, Schedule 3, section 27 [single sex services]

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/schedule/3

I always wonder about the "support" thing.

Obviously no one wants to be mean or rude to someone who's vulnerable - but is it supportive to really just go along with someone's beliefs or delusions, no matter what they are or what harm they could bring to them or others?

What is the expectation of the children in your family OP? Do they also have to say your relative is a woman? Does it cause any problems or confusion for them?

It is really difficult sometimes, I would try to edge the subject away - tactfully, now and again, I mean it is their journey and its good for you to be supportive but not to the exclusion of everything else.
I have a son that is trans (female - male) & to be honest this issue has never come up and I don't think it would make any difference if it did.
I do believe that some people feel that they are born in the wrong gender and it has to be ok for them to feel that way, and its alright for you to disagree with this ideology but if it is going to cause agro don't bother, its not worth falling out over, or if you do put it into the 3rd party 'some people think that....'

I'm not quite sure why people feel they would know better than the person living it

You’re disagreeing about a concept. They are actually living this life. I think you need to accept that yours is just an opinion and theirs is actually real life experience.

How can biological sex be ‘just a concept’ and how can ‘feeling like a woman’ be a true-fact just because someone believes it?

For the OP, I get along fine with plenty of people who don’t necessarily believe all the things I do. Hell, I married one! It’s perfectly possible to respectfully disagree, even on identity issues or issues of belief, if both parties are open, kind, not defensive or attacking and willing to listen. It’s up to you to judge when and how you might have that conversation, perhaps never but certainly at this point in someone’s transition seems like it wouldn’t go well. So the kind thing in this instance would be to let it wash over you if possible, and only object if absolutely necessary. You need to judge the situation.

which may account as for the suicide rates

Just to be clear, the threat of suicide has been one the tools that Mermaids group have used to encourage parents to allow their children to start transitioning and to take puberty blockers.

As a result there is a general understanding that suicide rates are higher in transgender people. In fact it has been shown that the suicide rates in transgender people are the same as any group with a mental health condition. I believe that Mermaids have since stopped pushing it as a reason to transition but the myth still prevails.

Sorry, but what are "TERFs"?

Women who believe that someone with a penis isn’t a woman.

Surely the only thing that matters is do you love and care for this person? If yes; then sorry the only thing you can do is bite your tongue and just support them.

This is outright emotional blackmail.

A person becoming trans does not also mean entry into some kind of sacred caste whose every wish, every belief, every desire must be accommodated without reference to the needs of their friends and relatives.

If they're out of order in the way they behave to you then they're out of order. If they demand respect and accommodation but won't give it then they're selfish and you're not obliged to comply. This applies to all our relationships, with a transgender person or otherwise.

Healthy familial relationships are reciprocal and, where there are tensions over difference, both parties need to work to keep the relationship on track.

Again: OP's problem is not about transgender. OP's problem is one of negotiating a reciprocal relationship with a relative.

A person is what they feel they are#

If anyone can lay down in black and white what female "feels like" then that would clarify a lot. I am female. It's just what I am, I don't "feel like" anything. I don't "identify" as anything.

It's really not that complicated.

A family member often tells people she is a spy, the government send her messages, there is a national conspiracy against her etc. She refuses to seek treatment or support, says it's all part of the government control attempt. We don't argue with her when she says Theresa may is sending her messages through her speeches, there's nothing to be gained from it.

So all you posters that are telling the OP to be ‘kind’, understanding, ‘nice’, accepting, etc, how far should she go. Should the OP not mention her period, in case it ‘triggers’, her relative? Should she accept any labels that the relative puts on her, in case refusing to accept the label ‘cis’ means that the male identifying as trans feels that such a refusal means they don’t really accept the relative as an actual woman? Should she be happy to share a changing room or even a bed, if she stays over, as the MIAT states that they’re BOTH ‘women’? Where does the OP draw the line, or should she just go along with all the proclamations that twaw, because it would be cruel not to?

Do you have kids, OP?

Because it’s one thing for you to let it wash all over you (as would probably I up to the point if/when they start to gob off about “terfs”) but I would not want my kids to be exposed to this ideology.

She has always felt female, and now she's living as one. You love her, and are obviously glad that she's happier now.

There's really no need to get into any sort of argument about her experience. Ignore the people who somehow think it's hypocritical to let things pass.
Like some others here, I have Evangelical Christians in my family. I don't believe what they believe, but they're wonderful people who I love, and their faith is important to them. They don't try to influence me, and when they talk about church or how they're praying for someone who's sick, I don't jump in and tell them they're wrong.