Be honest - would you judge the girl under 20 who has 2 children?

[namechange6678]

Honestly, what would your thoughts be at this?? Especially if the person looks under 20.

woohoo WHO has told anyone to know their place at the bottom of the heap??

Very true, Pauline, I'm not going to dispute your post as having kids in this age can be a struggle financially for many people.

But therein lies the rub. I said earlier that a woman's body is her own and she can do what she likes with it. I was (rightly) asked by another poster whether that choice was entirely hers. Or was she pressured into it etc. I understand the sentiment.

But, conversely, is the 'choice' for many women to put off having families till later in life really a choice at all? Or is it just an outcome based on purely economical reasons?

You could argue the case either way. When people come on threads like this saying young women who have kids aren't educated blah blah blah, I'm often left wondering, if we didn't have to compete with each other for jobs in society or in fact didn't HAVE to work, would people (women in particular) choose education for educations sake or would they choose to settled down and have a family?

Choices don't happen without external influence. Hope this post makes sense.

We should be teaching our kids that they can try to fly if they want to.

I wouldn't recommend this line of parenting if you live on the 15th floor.

I wouldn't have wanted to go on an 18-30 holiday even when I was that age! My idea of hell! I don't think the rail card is something I'll cry over either!

But the fact remains, there are things you can do in your 20s that you can't do in your 40s.

Christ there are some nasty judgemental fuckers on this thread. Glad everyone who sneers at young parents is so perfect.

Would one of the judgy bunch like to answer my question? Be interested to hear your unbiased thoughts

If a woman wanted a Katie Hopkins tattoo, that's HER prerogative, she's isn't harming anyone else (unlike a murderer). So what if you judge her? Who gives a flying shit?

Lots of people on here unfortunately. Apparently, any woman who judges another woman is a traitor to the cause. Although it looks like murderers are exempt. Women can judge other women who are murderers, which is nice to know.

It does make sense Koolbeans and I take your point however while I can agree with your various "ifs" I have to keep coming back to what currently "is" iyswim? People do have choices but choices have consequences and so I always think it's best for people to make informed choices and on this particular topic the information available indicates that generally teen mums and their children are economically and socially disadvantaged. On that basis I can't pretend to see it as a positive thing though I think that had OP started a thread seeking reassurance about her situation rather than what seemed to be a more general discussion, posters might have been less blunt.

Christ there are some nasty judgemental fuckers on this thread. Glad everyone who sneers at young parents is so perfect.

That's very judgmental of you. They might not be nasty at all, or think they are perfect. You seem to have made some very substantial judgements about them based on some comments on an internet forum. What do you know about their lives?

In a way on the financial side of stuff it’s like seeing someone own a private jet. Intellectually you know that there are lots of people with private jets but it’s still natural to say how on earth do they afford it.

I have absolutely no moral opinion whatsoever I just amazed that anyone can afford to have multiple children before twenty

I wouldn't have wanted to go on an 18-30 holiday even when I was that age! My idea of hell! I don't think the rail card is something I'll cry over either!

But the fact remains, there are things you can do in your 20s that you can't do in your 40s

The availability (or not) of trashy holidays and discount travel cards has nothing to do with personal capability, though, and surely that was point of the ageist argument!

Is it possible to have an unbiased thought?

My preference would be to have about 6 children and have a team of nannies to swoop in and take over the load whenever I felt like a nap. But there is, admittedly, an interplay between my desire for this and my spot in the economic model in which I find myself and the difficulty in recruiting unpaid nannies.

Of course look, people may make different decisions about when to have children if there were no economic imperative. It may lead to different decisions. But the decisions we make are unfortunately lodged in reality and the consequence of having children in your teens can be mapped, in general, by statistics and the poor outcomes that tend to bear out for those parents and children.

Not look, kool

@Lifecraft, I can only base my opinion on what people say, just like you. Their words suggest to me they’re very nasty indeed. In the same way as your various posts suggest to me that you could have an argument in an empty room.

I'm often left wondering, if we didn't have to compete with each other for jobs in society or in fact didn't HAVE to work, would people (women in particular) choose education for educations sake or would they choose to settled down and have a family

I think this is a very good point. It's very frowned upon nowadays for a woman to want to be a housewife. Oh she can be a SAHM for a while if her husband earns enough but she must go back to work once the DC are at school because what about her pension, what if he leaves her etc etc. It's great that women can work and have good careers but not every woman wants that but its somehow become unfeminist to admit it.

I grew up in a rural area, very limited career opportunities. I've caught up with some of my old school friends via FB and quite a few did indeed wait until they were married and late 20's/early 30's to have children, but they haven't worked since. That's fine, they're happy. But they decided that raising a family in the area they loved, near to all their relatives, was more important to them than moving away and having a decent career. It's more acceptable there because no one expects anyone to have a high flying job because they don't exist in that area. Of course now their children are reaching adulthood they will be faced with the same choice.

@koolbeans

'Education' is an end in itself, and something to which we should all aspire, competitive workplace or no.

The kind of wisdom that comes with age and experience is something different though, IMO.

A 20 year old parent just cannot offer a DC the benefit of this, as they haven't acquired it themselves IYSWIM?

Hence, yes I believe that, all other things being equal, a 35-40 yr old would do a better job of parenting than would the 20 year old version of that same person.

This probably depends where you live, but one under 20 would be making the best of a contraception fail, two a bit careless unless they're twins obviously.

I don't know many people who've had a child under 20. The one I do is every bit as good, or otherwise, a parent as anyone of any but she gets a lot of help because everyone assumes it's hard for her and her partner and people want to support them in finishing their education and starting their careers. Neighbors and wider community do more free childcare for her than they'd think of doing if they were 10 years older. She had her son at 18 a couple of months after taking A level equivalent, her partner was the same age but left school and got a job, they live with his parents.

It probably depends whether a flat of your own is affordable for a couple under 20 in your area. Where I live hardly anyone can afford accommodation for a family at that age and 20 year olds are living with parents or in house/flatshares. That's probably why it seems an odd choice to have not one probably accidental pregnancy but two children by 20 to me.

If you've got everything sorted and a 3 bed flat or house and jobs and don't live with or off your parents then more power to your elbow and all that, good for you.

There certainly are things you can do at 19/20 but can't at 40 though - 3rd class ladies carriage sleeper across India, sleeping on floorboards in illegal dorms in Vietnam, staying up working for 48 hours straight fueled only by coffee and writing a dissertation actually worth a first class mark in one sitting, cramming for exams all night and actually being awake and clear headed enough to write good answers... Not everyone wants to do those things of course...

Well yes, I am basing my doing things at my age on what I want to do, whether that be at 20 or 40. And yes sleeping on floorboards in illegal dorms was never on my wish list! Conversely whenever I see threads on here about older mothers being on their knees with exhaustion (of which there are many) I feel happy I did all the hard work of child rearing when I had that energy of my 20's. I was able to be up with a crying baby all night and still be clear headed the next day. On occasion I would get a babysitter and go clubbing all night, and still be fine to look after them both the next day.

If people are going to argue that a person has more energy at 20 than 40 then the argument has to go both ways.

On occasion I would get a babysitter and go clubbing all night, and still be fine to look after them both the next day.

so why do you snigger at the club 18-30?

You sound like a dream mother.

Thankfully some of us older mothers never went on our knees with exhaustion

I'm not responding to you anymore myDHhasahobbyanditsnotcycling
because you just want a childish argument. Grow up.

Asta19
you can't attack other people and expect them to stay quiet can you

I don't want to go into an argument either frankly, I find you funny

Hmmm, actually I only know one person in real life who had a baby under 20. I can’t even think of anyone as young as 24. That one person, her mum and dad raised the baby in the early years. She’s 12 now and still spends a huge amount of time with grandparents despite a now stable and comfortable family set up with siblings. It’s worked fine, everyone adapted as they needed to and the child is an amazing kid. But I get the impression it wasn’t easy through the years for the mum herself.

@lifecraft - I'm failing to see the link between a woman having a choice over her own body (a feminist viewpoint) vs. Somebody of either sex murdering another person (nothing to do with feminism whatsoever). As someone above said you could probably start an argument in an empty room. That's a wild tangent to go off at, but you shine on, you crazy diamond

I had 2 by 24. 6 and 4 now and I'm not having any more. By the time they're old enough to look after themselves I will still be relatively young. I'd really rather not be doing school runs in my 50s

To be unsure how I feel about this except that it's one of the saddest stories I've ever read
www.thesun.co.uk/news/9221159/depressed-girl-17-dies-at-euthanasia-clinic-in-holland-after-suffering-unbearable-pain-since-chi