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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask why aibu is so anti-trans?

712 replies

BinkyBaa · 04/06/2019 02:51

Just that really. I don't mean to be goady I've just noticed that when it comes up here, people seem more against it than other social circles I'm familiar with. I think I'm a bit out of the loop as to what the issue is.

OP posts:
LimeKiwi · 08/06/2019 15:25

Why can't a man just be comfortable in a dress

They can.
Although I can understand from some of the attitudes why they feel the need to hide.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 08/06/2019 15:26

Although I can understand from some of the attitudes why they feel the need to hide.

Because of people who think they are women!
Or have to be women!

For not following stereotypes!

Disgusting!

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 08/06/2019 15:27

People like you lime

You're insistent not following stereotypes makes you the opposite sex.

Wouldn't it be better to remove gendered stereotypes?

BertrandRussell · 08/06/2019 15:27

A woman is an adult human of the class that can produce eggs.

A man is an adult human of the class that produces sperm.

Both classes are traditionally bound by heavily differentiated societal expectations of appearance and behaviour. Both classes have many members who reject these expectations.

Trans people are adult humans who wish to adopt and embrace the societal expectations and stereotyped behaviour of the opposite class to that in which they were born.

LimeKiwi · 08/06/2019 15:28

No, because of people with the attitudes that men can't wear dresses and will ridicule them if they do.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 08/06/2019 15:28

So much damage is being done by re-enforcing the harmful stereotypes of gender.

LimeKiwi · 08/06/2019 15:30

You're assuming that every male putting on a dress though is just a man playing dress up.
That's harmful IMO.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 08/06/2019 15:30

No, because of people with the attitudes that men can't wear dresses and will ridicule them if they do.

The trans rights movement is harming this!

You are supporting removal of non-comformers by making them stick to gender stereotypes!

You are doing this!

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 08/06/2019 15:32

dress though is just a man playing dress up.

No, it is a MAN exercising their freedom of expression and belief.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 08/06/2019 15:33

Why should I be forced into a transgender box lime?

Why are you supporting something that makes it harder and harder for people to be happy in their own body?

Butchyrestingface · 08/06/2019 15:34

Trans people are adult humans who wish to adopt and embrace the societal expectations and stereotyped behaviour of the opposite class to that in which they were born.

Surely not? If that were the case, we surely wouldn’t be seeing so much male entitlement as regards their rights to access female spaces, competitive sports, etc?

BertrandRussell · 08/06/2019 15:34

“and that trans people are capable of so much more than causing trouble in competitive sport and in women's toilets and prisons.”

Of course the can. They are people after all. But there are a few that go cause problems in sport and prisons. And because it is a new sort of trouble, we need to address it and find ways round it. Pretending it does not exist is no help to anyone.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 08/06/2019 15:34

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

DuploTower · 08/06/2019 15:35

A man should be free to wear a dress if he wants to. He should not be ridiculed or shamed for doing so.

I am allowed my private beliefs about why a man might want to wear a dress.

None of this changes his sex.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 08/06/2019 15:38

I am allowed my private beliefs about why a man might want to wear a dress.

Exactly!
You also have a right to express that opinion.

LimeKiwi · 08/06/2019 15:39

Why are you supporting something that makes it harder and harder to be happy in their own body?

The opposite, surely?
If you were telling someone they'll only ever be a man and not accepting of anything else is what would be forcing them into a box, to be something they're not?

LimeKiwi · 08/06/2019 15:40

I agree with what @DuploTower just said too.

Fairenuff · 08/06/2019 15:41

In fact, can anyone link to that article about how transwomen feel?

I found it. Sorry, it's not an article, it's a post on reddit:

I want to giggle at shit.
I want to get dressed up and go out and have people check me out.
I want to drink wine, watch movies, and cuddle up with a stuffed animal.
I want to do my hair, put some makeup on, and have the confidence that comes with it.
I want someone to think I'm adorable, pinch my cheeks, and cuddle up behind me and pet my hair while we eat chips and watch Brooklyn Nine Nine.
I want to be cute.
Not like physically, necessarily. Realistically, I'm a decently-looking guy.
But I want to act cutesy. I want to skip. I want to blush. I want to show up to a coffeeshop in my sweats with a book looking like a hot mess that just rolled outta bed to start her morning.

^^ This to me is a fantasy. Most women's normal lives are much more clean the loo, think about what to have for dinner tonight, book the cat into the vet, listen to mother complaining about her piles, open the windows to dispel the husband's farts. Not so cute.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 08/06/2019 15:42

The opposite, surely?

No not the opposite, I will only ever be a man. Sex can't change.

Stonewall and TRA lobby groups have made it impossible for a man to wear nail varnish, as that makes him transgender and a woman.

You've done so much damage.

LimeKiwi · 08/06/2019 15:44

Grin A poster on Reddit. FFS lol, well that must be what they all think then Confused

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 08/06/2019 15:45

What is more damaging:

"Yes son you can wear nail varnish, and make up. Because you have a right to express yourself how you want"

"Wearing make up and nail varnish makes you a woman. You are a woman you need to change sex."

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 08/06/2019 15:46

Restrictive, stereotyped, bollocks dressed up as progressive, nonsensical boundary breaking.

LimeKiwi · 08/06/2019 15:48

I will only ever be a man

That's good for you then isn't it, if you "match" up.

borntobequiet · 08/06/2019 15:49

There’s a good thread atm where a number of people (including me) say they can’t wear makeup or nail varnish because they don’t like how it feels. So in terms of gendered appearance they will always fall short of full womanhood. Boo hoo.

Butchyrestingface · 08/06/2019 15:50

I want to giggle at shit.
I want to get dressed up and go out and have people check me out.
I want to drink wine, watch movies, and cuddle up with a stuffed animal.
I want to do my hair, put some makeup on, and have the confidence that comes with it.
I want someone to think I'm adorable, pinch my cheeks, and cuddle up behind me and pet my hair while we eat chips and watch Brooklyn Nine Nine.
I want to be cute.
Not like physically, necessarily. Realistically, I'm a decently-looking guy
But I want to act cutesy. I want to skip. I want to blush. I want to show up to a coffeeshop in my sweats with a book looking like a hot mess that just rolled outta bed to start her morning

That made a pp feel all warm inside? Jesus H Christ.

On that evidence, I must be a bloke.