To ask why aibu is so anti-trans?

[BinkyBaa]

Just that really. I don't mean to be goady I've just noticed that when it comes up here, people seem more against it than other social circles I'm familiar with. I think I'm a bit out of the loop as to what the issue is.

Mumsnet isn't a forum of teenagers trying to appear woke. That's why. It's representative of the actual way people think, not a parade of virtue signaling.

I'm not anti trans at all.

I'm just pro woman. And pro biology.

Funnily enough all the social circles I am a part of are gender-critical.

We toe the line and say all the right things in public at work, but get 2 women together and the relief as they can be honest about what they really think is overwhelming.

It's thoroughly depressing.

My trans friendly credentials are pretty well established offline.

I can't be arsed with the MN threads on it though as I find them both ill informed and thoroughly depressing, so I leave them to it in their little echo chamber.

To ask why aibu is so anti-trans?

It is a combination of legitimate concerns and prejudice.

What are trans friendly credentials? Do you get a wee card? Special handshake?

I think because it's mostly women and many old and experienced enough to know that there is more to life as a woman than pretty dresses and make up and that biology based discrimination does actually exist.

MN has a very effective GC echo chamber.

If you read only that, you would not realise that different, and just as valid (and considerably more tolerant) views exist.

It only occasionally spills out into AIBU though.

Because that's a topic when not all posters agree with the echo-chamber posters.

People say things online they would never say elsewhere because of the anonymity, which means extremes of opinion seem more common.

Do you think it's extreme to want to protect women's rights?

I certainly don't. I've said this in very public arenas as well, and will continue to do so for the rest of my life. Women's rights aren't negotiable for me.

@eggwrap please don't equate woke with teenagers like it's just a modern trend - it actually comes from the 60s when POC communities began challenging the privileges of the majority and become more aware of their own oppression.

Sorry for the detail but when PPs are talking about being 'pro-facts', the door should swing both ways.

Regarding the anti-trans debate, I don't think AIBU is, though the feminism board sometimes makes me like the post about Wagamama toilets the other day.

Most restaurants with limited space have cubicles that can be used by anyone. It's not a new thing but the posts on there made it sound as though men would be free to pee in literally the same room as women, which was rubbish.

I understand the need to protect women only spaces but that right should never come at the expense of anyone else's rights.

As a smart person once said, blowing out someone else's candle does not make yours glow brighter.

Not anti trans in the slightest.

You see this is the problem. People like you are the problem.

Women are unable to stick up for themselves. We are unable to say we aren't comfortable with men in the our bathrooms and changing rooms. When we voice these concerns we are 'anti trans'.

It's really just in line with the 85% of society (approx) that doesn't think it's possible to change sex or believe in self ID. It sounds as if your social circles are the unusual ones, perhaps you should be asking those people why they think the way they do.

They do care they men can say they are a woman and get transferred into a womens prison. Especially when these men are already convicted rapists. Then go on to attack female inmates

And then take over the rape crisis centres and tell women if they don't like it to go somewhere else.

To ask why aibu is so anti-trans?

As PPs say, it isn't. Certainly MN has a much better quality of discussion and much less transphobia than other sites (e.g. twitter).

What you are seeing is a lot of discussion around two issues:

1. Policies of 'self ID' allowing anyone to 'identify' as the opposite sex. There is concern about men being allowed into things like rape shelters and women's sports.

1. The idea that it is bigoted to discuss sex based rights in this way and the effort to stop women from discussing these issues- mostly through intimidation and harassment but with some violence.

'To ask why aibu is so anti-trans?'

At a wild guess, it's because the GC posters have a klaxon

(Rule of thimb, the group's which sling the accusation most are almost invariably the ones doing it most, yes, I see the flaw in pointing that out. It's why it's an effective tactic. But once you start spotting relative frequency of use, you may see patterns. Just something to think about)

Agree that viewpoints other than GC are just as valid

Glad nobody's being goady with this thread. And that Mumsnet is an echo chamber, unlike Twitter for example.

I think it’s born of frustration, when suddenly the thing that seems so very clear to you - that a man cannot become a woman by putting on a dress and calling himself Pamela - is considered hate if you say it. It’s also hate if I call gender dysphoria an illness.

I don’t hate anybody. I recognise that some people have a mental health condition which compels them to try to change physical sex because they feel as though they are the other gender. It’s deeply problematic and often very sad. I don’t hate them, and I have no issue with them doing what they like to their own bodies.

I do have an issue with men being sent to women’s prisons, with enforced unisex toileting, with men taking advantage of the confusion to compete in women’s sports, and so on.

people seem more against it than other social circles I'm familiar with.

Then you need to move in better educated circles.

@eggwrap Although I don't agree with your comparison, that wasn't my point.

I meant please don't use a word as a negative (equating woke with teenagers and thereby implying it's some 'young person' thing that has no real relevance) if you don't fully understand what that word means or the history behind it.

Very few people are “anti-trans”. What they are is anti Self-ID, they are also very worried about the number of children being labelled Trans, and out in a path of life long medication. MN is also pro women’s rights and these rights are being eroded as we speak.

Why shouldn’t women stick up for themselves?

@EggWrap

There is oppression everywhere, it's not just subject to one race. That is the order of the status quo.

*put on