How to motivate a v chatty boy in class to stop chatting?

[Thelowquietsea]

DS, 8, Y3 is a wonderful soul but just very chatty. He is always talking, always asking questions - which is great, of course, but not when he's in class.

This year he has a fabulous teacher. I think she is just great. However, she and I have had loads of chats about DS who she says is just very chatty at the wrong time. WHilst he's not alone, he's a regular. He's academic v strong, in the top few in the class - she says that whilst he can pick things up after listening half an ear - he's talking to others who need to really listen. So it's really disruptive from that POV as well.

She's done everything - carrot/stick/moving him, talking to him - I feel we've done everything - reward/talk about respect regularly/incentives/punishment/ on and on and on from term 1.

Nothing changes. Or if it does, it's for a short time.

I don't know what to do! It's so annoying. Before anyone wades in with does he have SEN - No, he doesn't at all. He just seems to lack self-control. Or he doesn't WANT it enough or to please me enough!

Aagh. I know he'll grow up and hopefully improve, but any thoughts or tips on how to change this around would be welcome.

Candleglow7475

It has everything to do with it. My message to my children is that I expect them to behave a certain way, whether I am there or I am not. If they don’t, they will receive consequences of that. Sensible ones, in proportion to their behaviour and it’s frequency.

I hear what you're saying OP and the teacher does sound very good in many ways, but I think she has also got herself into the rut of 'oh well I have a group of chatty boys...' which will probably mean she's having lower expectations of them than she ought to. Or, as can happen, there's too much of a focus on carrots and motivating and not enough of 'your actions are selfish and preventing others from learning and I expect you to behave politely' .

You're right to be concerned about him thinking he is too bright to need to listen. We see it all the time at secondary, reasonably able students (but nothing excpetional) who were the top 5 in primary and therefore think their slapdash attempt at the work is good enough.

Personally, I think you and the teacher need a much firmer line. E.g. he gets moved away from friends, one warning, sent out for a word with the teacher, then a sanction at school which is relayed to you at home so you can back the school.

At the moment there's too much talk (home and school) about trying to motivate and get him to listen etc. It's not a negotiation. He behaves and has manners or there is a consequence and that consequence needs to happen every single time.

If it helps, I've taught students like that aged 13/14/15. They've hated it at first because they've had an easy ride and had adults who've let them hand in sloppy work, chatter etc, but when they know that the same expectations are there every lesson they buckle down and get on with it because they're nice kids who want to do well (and then will openly talk about places around school they arse around because it's absolutely a choice).

She doesn't think that we'll get anywhere this academic year, because the class dynamic is such that they are really emeshed with each other.

Then I would take the teacher at her word. You can't change the classroom dynamic and you could accept what the teacher says - nothing is likely to work this term. There's not much of it left it so you could hang on and see if things get better next year. And if things don't improve in the new class environment then maybe reconsider something ADD-ish or communication-ish. A different teacher might be more open to the possibility.

I think she has also got herself into the rut of 'oh well I have a group of chatty boys...'

Maybe but the OK can't fix that for her. Which is another reason why just waiting for a new class and a new teacher might help.

missing a portion of playtime is more relevant

Actually it isn’t for some children those with dyslexia or ADHD need break times more than the others

I am a new mum to a baby so have absolutely no experience of children your sons age, but maybe, every time he's trying to talk at home, you should start talking over him and see how he likes that?! Then you can explain that that is what he's doing to his teacher all the time?!

@herculepoirot2 -may I ask, how old are your children now?

Thelowquietsea

I prefer not to say, OP.

herculepoirot2 this boy is 8, so we are talking a y3 or y4 child.
Year 3 is known to be a difficult transition year - in old money this would be junior 1, children this age are hardly known for their maturity. At his age he should get a timely consequence, to reinforce the desired behaviour, not something hours later at his age.

Well, it's worth bearing in mind that teachers aren't psychiatrists and probably aren't much more well informed about things like ADHD than the general public. I know DS1's teacher in the previous two-year block (how his school works) actively scoffed and said no he definitely doesn't have that (I had just been diagnosed myself hence why I brought it up with her) and then his current teacher said she was astonished that we sent her the questionnaire to fill in, because it hadn't occurred to her at all - but then she marked him more severely than we did

Anyway this is not bad as a screener: psychcentral.com/quizzes/child-adhd-quiz/

Lots of the children in DS's class wear the ear defenders and find them useful. I was actually surprised when he told me he found them helpful because I would have expected that he would have found it far more fun to have left them off and continue playing/talking. Actually he has volunteered to work on his own on several occasions as well but unfortunately he always ends up moving back. He's moving schools in September as well as starting behavioural therapy soon anyway so fingers crossed it will improve as he matures.

Most children aged 8+ and adults do have some degree of impulse control. That's the thing that makes you think about the punishment if you get the urge to hit somebody. (Or blurt out a funny comment at an inappropriate time.) If you don't have sufficient impulse control then it doesn't matter what you're afraid of happening because it won't be able to impact upon the decision. Also the further away the consequence from the misbehaviour the stronger the impulse control has to be. But you don't magically develop impulse control because you don't want to receive a punishment.

Candleglow7475

Again, I disagree. A timely consequence, yes, but also - if the issue is ongoing - a clear message that this won’t be accepted at home.

@herculepoirot2 - it's a shame after sharing SO many opinions, you're reluctant to share the ages of your kids. With the greatest of respect towards you, is this, as I suspect, that they are so much older than mine? Grown up? You've given me some fabulous food for thought, but the tone of your posts has become a bit old school, if you don't mind me saying. As in children, ALL CHILDREN, will learn the message and there is no ifs or buts, they will and and that is it. End of. And whilst I totally acknowledge a lot of what you're saying is right, and respect how you've been helpful, I drift off a bit when met with so much black and white, because life, and people, and kids, aren't like that. No doubt you'll call me soft or confused or unwilling to see the honest picture etc in response to this but hey ho...

@Candleglow 7475 - I totally agree that children his age are not known for their maturity. If his problem cuts deeper, we shall find out...

@Bertiebotts - so much helpful info, thanks a lot

Sorry Thelowquietsea but in your posts you do come across as soft IMO.

You sound more focused on what a bright fab child with spirit your DS is than on what a rude pain in the neck he is (with regards to the chatting, I'm not suggesting he is a pain all the time).

I really don't like this current fashion of rewarding kids for normal behavior and trying to make everything positive. I'm not in school teaching anymore but my ex colleagues who are are exhausted and frustrated with having classes full of kids who don't think the rules apply to them, who have a "lack of impluse control" (remember the days when we used to call that naughty or rude or selfish or annoying).

There is a real problem nowadays in education with spirited clever children who seem to think they are the centre of the world. Your son's behavior (and that of his other chatty peers) was simply not tolerated by teachers or parents not so very long ago. There were no star charts and all that palava. Children were expected to behave with manners and respect and firmly sanctioned when they did not by all the adults around them. And I think they were happier and more productive and smarter and more self aware and just generally all round pleasanter for it.

Thelowquietsea

Well, we each have a choice about what we are prepared to share online.

Unfortunately, OP, yes, I do think you’re being soft. Anyway, each to their own. If your new approach works I will be very happy for you.

You've given me some fabulous food for thought, but the tone of your posts has become a bit old school, if you don't mind me saying.

I know this isn't addressed to me but I've heard this so many times.

Generally I reply that manners are not "old school".

@Beachcomber

God, if you knew me in real life, you would know how far from soft I am. But that's your opinion.

And whilst that's your opinion, I take offence to reading that you think I'm focussed on what a bright, spirited kid is he etc. I haven't been remotely defensive about his behaviour - which I hate. I know exactly what a selfish, rude pain in the neck he clearly is in that setting. If you were a fly on the wall listening to the number of times I have clearly expressed my displeasure to him, told him in bald terms what his behaviour is like.

I think it's really rude and offensive of you to suggest I think he's a bright, clever kid who is the centre of the world. That's not my style at all, and nothing I have said has indicated that.

Beachcomber

Indeed. And if they have become “old-school”, does that mean rudeness is now the order of the day?

@beachcomber. See above. You don't know anything about me. And certainly don't know how clear I am about manners. My DS is actually very well mannered with adults. It's the classroom he has problems with right now.

Stop casting dispersions on my character when you know F**k all about me. Stick to either offering productive advice or saying nothing.

Not sure If this has been suggested as not RTFT but I'm a teacher and I'd sit him on his own?! Is this in any way an option?

The fact is old school methods leave a lot of children behind. Being written off as naughty, rude, insolent, whatever it is doesn't actually help them not become those things.

Have no good suggestions, but would like to comment.

To all you with young dcs, please answer their questions, the more the better. Even though you end up crossed eyed from answering and answering and...

They are like sponges, it is how they learn fast. If their are ignored or given 'meh' answers, they eventually give up.

My dcs are young adults now, but answering all the time made them more curious, gave them a fantastic vocabulary and I think, boosted them in their educational choices.

Of course dcs have to listen to others, but shutting their questions down at home, is imo a bad idea. 😀

How about trying a "focus ball". Give him a soft squeezy ball, think "exec toy" type. In class he holds it in his hand when he should be listening. If his attention starts to waver he must squeeze the ball and continue to listen. If he is meant to be writing he should be set targets - number of sums to do, story to complete, etc to focus him.

Actually she needs to be harsher and less understanding. He is talking because he wants to and does not respect the teachers instructions

Exactly! The softly softly, 'gentle' approach is all very well but with a misbahaved, talkative, disruptive child, which is what he really is, a far firmer approach is needed. He's taking far too much attention away from the better behaved children who don't want to listen to his 'chat'.

Thelowquietsea. You are right I don't know you at all. This is an internet forum and I'm going only on your posts here and how you come across on what is obviously a very restricted media.

And how you come across to me is soft. Not outrageously soft but soft in a subtle way that comes from a good place of love for a child but that actually sends mixed messages to that child.

For example your thread title. You ask how to motivate your chatty child to stop chatting in class. In my (old school) opinion the question is phrased in a very DS focused way. And in a way that is about motivating a child to behave in a way that should be nothing more than basic good manners and consideration for others.

I think we are in trouble when we have to motivate our children to behave in a way that should be the normal basic standards.

Also your reactions on this thread. You come across as being very positive about any posts suggesting rewards / encouragement, etc for your DS and quite defensive about posts suggesting that your DS is rude, out of line and needs to cut it out.

I'm just giving you my opinion. You asked for it and I'm actually trying to help.

LadyRannaldini
I agree.
I think too many people equate strict with cold, unpleasant and uncaring.
The best strict teachers are firm and fair, consistent and warm, friendly. Students know they are valued and cared for but that's precisely the reason it would be wrong for the teacher to tolerate poor behaviour and have low standards.

Indeed. And if they have become “old-school”, does that mean rudeness is now the order of the day?

It would seem so herculepoirot2. It's why I don't teach children and only teach adults. The crowd control is exhausting and excellent teachers are leaving the profession because they spend so little time teaching and so much trying to get kids to be quiet and listen to someone who is trying to help them get on in life.