How to motivate a v chatty boy in class to stop chatting?

[Thelowquietsea]

DS, 8, Y3 is a wonderful soul but just very chatty. He is always talking, always asking questions - which is great, of course, but not when he's in class.

This year he has a fabulous teacher. I think she is just great. However, she and I have had loads of chats about DS who she says is just very chatty at the wrong time. WHilst he's not alone, he's a regular. He's academic v strong, in the top few in the class - she says that whilst he can pick things up after listening half an ear - he's talking to others who need to really listen. So it's really disruptive from that POV as well.

She's done everything - carrot/stick/moving him, talking to him - I feel we've done everything - reward/talk about respect regularly/incentives/punishment/ on and on and on from term 1.

Nothing changes. Or if it does, it's for a short time.

I don't know what to do! It's so annoying. Before anyone wades in with does he have SEN - No, he doesn't at all. He just seems to lack self-control. Or he doesn't WANT it enough or to please me enough!

Aagh. I know he'll grow up and hopefully improve, but any thoughts or tips on how to change this around would be welcome.

We had this issue with ds at primary school, and it was markedly improved by him being given more challenging work to do.
It reared it’s head again in a subject ar secondary level, and funnily enough, some extension work on the subject worked again.
Kids can’t be allowed to disrupt the class, but the teacher also needs to engage the kids.

I have one child out of 4 that brain dumps on us all. The psychologist we see has told us to be very constant about her only having her share of the time available. It's really impacting a good way. The others all feel she walks roughshod over them - in part because she's the oldest and verbally able.

Another way he's told us to tell her to look at it is that she's verbally skilled and she needs to understand that others are less skilled than her and she needs to bring her level down to the lowest verbal level not verbally machine gun the others.

It is disrespectful and there should be firm consequences for this at home, as well as at school.
He's not listening to the teacher when she's told to stop talking, and he keeps talking even after that.
You said you've been in and out of the school to sort this out and he still won't stop it.
I would be removing privileges and treats at home, until he decides to behave himself and actually do so, from now on, at school.
You need to be more strict with him, because he is not behaving himself at school and disrupting other children's progress.

I think you it's brilliant a child is asking questions and engaging but it's a fine social skill to do it in a way that's not interrupting. How is his writing? Can he write down questions, thoughts and teacher can get him to pick only a few to discuss in an allocated time between or end of lesson? He could bring questions home for your both to look at latter.
My son was like this in reception and was given some books to look at before an upcoming lesson by TA. He just wanted to know more and faster than his peers. His teacher used to print sheets which he used to look at in break times and also bring home. We were lucky to have a really good teacher.
We don't have this issue now as he is in y2 and work is much more advanced although I still encourage him to ask questions but wait for a chance. He is still given sheets to look at or a library book if he gets too curious.

Could he have a soft toy to talk to? He's probably too old for a teddy but a sharkora dog. He is allowed to whisper his thoughts and questions to the toy and then when the teacher gets to him the toy can tell the teacher (or you at the end of the day) the most important things.

Sometimes even a "fabulous" teacher just doesn't do it right with a specific child. I had this with one of my DS's TAs. Unlike your DS, my DS had quite complex needs and one-to-one shared between two TAs, one very experienced and excellent. I really liked and respected the older TA and DS liked her and she seemed to get great behaviour from him at first but then his behaviour went downhill with he and she started to feel he had no respect for her and in the end she refused to carry on working with him. The other TA seemed to take DS in her stride, same as the two TAs he'd had when he was younger and who stepped in again to replace the older TA. Much later one of them told me that she thought the older TA expected too much "goodness" of DS, she thought he was more able behaviourally than he really was because of his intellect, and she was too constantly demanding. And that what the TA had seen as disrespect was DS's very bad reaction to over-demands.

Different situation, but even very good teachers can have unrealistic expectations of a specific child, SEN or not.

So, that's it...we just write off all kids who don't perform like everyone else at certain points? We assume they're doomed.

Well, that's not quite fair. He can start learning to be less chatty than he was, while still being more chatty than the other kids for a very long time. There may not be a magic wand that fixes this right now. And you don't want to be punishing him forever for being more
chatty than the other kids.

FWIW one of my nieces was unstoppably chatty, to the point where a psychologist (while saying she didn't have ADHD) advised her parents to hold up a yellow card at home to tell her it was time to let someone else speak! She is a now a very successful teacher herself.

The problem lies with his attitude, his WANTING, and not with the teacher. I truly believe this.

But that in itself might be maturity and self control and his reaction to the demands of a busy classroom. If there are a lot of other chatty kids then your DS might be in a bit of a state of distraction. You are framing it as a motivation problem - he could do it if only I could make him want to enough - but even the best motivation only helps people to do a little better than they do now, it doesn't fix everything all at once. And to be realistic about it, there are limits to how much you can do at home to change what happens in school. You are already trying to support the teacher but you can't fix this for her.

The teacher has done more than enough. I'm embarrassed by how much time he has taken off her.

Take a step back. Do not internalise her problems. Yes you are responsible for your son, but you are not responsible for how this teacher manages her classroom or her time. It's up to her to decide how much time to give him.

(If your chatty son is the biggest demand she has on her time then she's having an easy life. Maybe she'd prefer mine - get him wrong and he could empty a classroom.)

I am worried that you said DS tells you he was chatty in school and then you punish him by removing TV. That means he tells you the truth about his successes and failures, he even hopes for your help, and you punish him for telling you about a failure. That's very bad motivation in the
long run.

So what to do? I would be inclined to flip this back to the teacher. Ask her straight out, is there anything specific that she would like you to do at home that will help him manage his chattiness in class? You need a plan that's agreed between both of you, otherwise you reacting at home will be counter-productive. And since you have only just stopped punishing him for something else anyway try to go for a reward-based scheme. As you say, life should not be non-stop punishment. And if there isn't a specific plan then for the time being note the teacher's concerns and let her deal with it.

I feel like I'm repeating myself purely to evidence that I'm not soft. Have my posts not proven this?

Oh, you'll never be hard (or soft) enough to please some people, don't let it worry you.

Try modeling back to him what he's doing. So, when he is doing something he wants to concentrate on e.g. watch a favourite television programme, subtly keep distracting him with a few pointless questions. Then discuss the effect on him, how it feels and relate it to class.

It's difficult for you to suggest strategies too the teacher but I've used a version of the above in class. I might choose your son to be 'teacher', and then play the disruptive child in order to model acceptable and unnaceptable behaviour. They find it funny but it's visual, they feel the frustration and it gets the point home without constant nagging. I've used this in a variety of situations e.g. how to not to come into class after play. So I would run in loudly and chaotically and take ages to sit down etc etc. Perhaps you could light heartedly but powerfully adapt this for home.

Other strategies: give him a job that involves listening e.g. recording important (his judgement) questions asked in class and pinning them up on a board for everyone to think about.

Forget taking away play. Add minutes of play for good behaviour. 5 minutes extra play is a very strong and positive motivator.

Thanks @MyCatCameBack and @Nessiboo for your thoughtful responses.

I am worried that you said DS tells you he was chatty in school and then you punish him by removing TV. That means he tells you the truth about his successes and failures, he even hopes for your help, and you punish him for telling you about a failure. That's very bad motivation in the long run.

This is very true. I need to think about this.

I have flipped it back to the teacher and discussed what we both do loads. It sort of ends up in the same place. SHe doens't think that we'll get anywhere this academic year, because the class dynamic is such that they are really emeshed with each other. She said it's really strong, unlike she's seen in a long time. I'm guessing that for DS, there's a lack of fear now. Whereas I took him and left him somewhere in half term for two hours - a club of sorts - and apparently there were lots and lots of lively boys, but he wasn't one of them. He just got on with his stuff - I think because he didn't know anyone, so wasn't comfortable. Too comfortable. IFYSWIM

I think I might try reward based scheme instead.

And I'm def going to interrupt his TV! He'll hate him. Which is the point.

I think I might try reward based scheme instead.

Come back when that doesn’t work, OP. Honestly: yes, you are of course being too soft.

Maybe you're right @Herculepoirot2, but maybe you're not.

Hmm. I wish you well, OP, but you have said yourself you have tried everything else. Sounds like more of the same to me.

If it is impulse based then it doesn't matter whether you use a reward or punishment, if it's after school. That won't affect it in the slightest, because he probably already knows he's not supposed to talk - he's not deliberately doing it anyway because he thinks it doesn't matter (and therefore needs some extra motivation for it to start to matter).

I'm going to base the rest of my post on the assumption that he already knows he shouldn't be talking in class and he expresses the opinion (even if you don't think he means it very strongly) that he "can't help it".

So if it's impulse control you have four possible avenues for behaviour change:

• Make it harder for him [to chat]. So perhaps sit him completely away from other people. Or noise cancelling headphones (ear defenders). Actually one of the dads in DS1's class donated an entire set and any child who is finding the classroom noise disruptive is allowed to take a pair and wear them - I thought this was absolute genius!

• Think of what you want the behaviour replaced with, and make that easier. So for example, have a very clear change between talking time and listening time, and get him to do something during listening time which constantly reminds him "this is listening time" - could be as simple as a hand gesture (perhaps folding hands in lap and eye contact with teacher)

• Mark and potentially reward specific efforts towards redirecting the urge - like the tally mark somebody else suggested.

• Immediate punishment - but this is the least likely to work because it doesn't address the actual problem, and also because at 8 in a school classroom there are very few immediate punishments which are likely to be appropriate and not disruptive to the rest of the class. Delayed punishment of any kind won't work for impulse control issues because the impulse isn't thinking about watching TV this evening, the impulse is thinking "I've got to tell Daniel this NOW"

Another poster mentioned ADHD and I know you said no SEN. But my son is like this and I was like this at school and we both have ADHD. Non hyperactive - we can stay in our chairs but we just can't resist responding to a classmate who makes a joke or says a word or shares a look. Not saying he does have it, but it is worth keeping in the back of your mind as a possibility. Of course he could also just be 8 with slightly less developed impulse control than other areas.

Sounds like my DD, teachers used to use her to bounce off of from infants through to secondary

@BelleSausage thanks for that book recommendation

Bertie

Isn’t everything we do because we want to “impulse based”? I occasionally get the impulse to smack someone, but I don’t because I know I would have a criminal record. The punishment deters me.

There isn’t a chance the OP’s NT, sociable 8 year old will want to wear ear defenders. Unless there is SN, that should be entirely unnecessary.

I'd put him in the corridor.

I think if he doesnt have any sen then at 8 he is just being rude and disrespectful. It doesnt matter if others are doing it. They arent your children to deal with. He needs to be told its not cute and funny, disturbing other kids is selfish.

Thanks @BertieBotts - that's all really helpful. I did ask the teacher if she thought DS had traits of ADHD and she didn't think he did. Of course, this might come to the fore eventually.

The teacher is not too soft. Just beacuse it's not working on him does not mean she is doing a bad job. The opposite.

And for posters who say things like 'He needs to be told its not cute and funny, disturbing other kids is selfish.' - READ MY POSTS BEFORE YOU COMMENT.

I'm not the biggest fan of children being punished at home for things they do in school or of them missing out on playtimes for things they've done in class.

Do the school maybe have a social communications group he could go to? It can help with talking at the appropriate times and taking turns in conversation (don't know if this is an issue here). I know up thread you have said you don't think it is a SEN issue but input from the Senco might be helpful to get to root of problem and Senco will normally observe child in class and may give a different perspective on what's going on and ways to solve it?

What is wrong with missing playtimes?

This is turning into a pile on which is frankly ridiculous, lots of posters here must have the perfect kids who never shout out eh?
where’s the correlation between a punishment at home and blurting out in class?? It’s hours later and nothing to do with the actual ‘offence’. Like I said upthread a ‘pointless questions’ list as used by our schools creates a pause and time for reflection, yes it might sound harsh for those not used to but it also gives the child an opportunity to back down gracefully and say they’ve answered their own question once they’ve had time to think.
A playstation ban or equivalent at home is not an appropriate consequence IMO, missing a portion of playtime is more relevant.