To question whether it is us or our neighbours who are being unreasonable

[ThespianTendencies]

DS - 12 is a keen musician. He likes to play piano. He also likes playing on his Xbox. Three times in recent weeks the neighbours have complained about noise. First time was about 945pm and ds was playing piano in the dining room (we are semi detached). The piano is on the wall that does not back onto their dining room wall. He was playing with gusto but I could barely hear him from the lounge so not unreasonably loud imho. The neighbour texted and asked if he could stop as he had to be up at 5am. I told ds to quieten down and he stopped playing and played his guitar instead. This happened again about 2 weeks later when ds was on piano - again it was not late; 10pm, within the reasonable time to be able to play music in your own home I would have thought. Then last night, neighbour texted to ask if ds was Ok as he could hear screaming from upstairs. I said I was sure he was OK as he was on his Xbox playing Fortnight and could I hear him laughing and chatting with his friends online. Again, this was 1030pm so not ludicrously late and I don't think we should be tiptoeing around after 10pm just because our neighbour has to be up at 5am. I did go to ds and told him to quieten down of course, which he did. I totally appreciate that we must be mindful of our neighbours, we have lived side by side for nearly 9 years. I made no comments or complaints when their young baby was crying through the night or when their two girls wake every morning during weekends and holidays alike at 630am. It is family life and having had two children myself, I understand it. I have made sure that ds has quietened down every time but I am not sure that they are being very fair. If it was past 11pm or early hours of the morning then fair enough, but this seems like we are being made to shut up! Your thoughts please.

I'm genuinely stumped as to why someone would need to ask if being noisy at night is unreasonable. OP, were you raised by wolves??

The same thought crossed my mind 😂. I bet the neighbours put up with a lot considering the OP is blissfully unaware how unreasonable her family are being.

That’s all far too late! I feel very sorry for your neighbours! Everyone knows young children wake up very early, 5.30am etc, they can’t be helped. Playing the piano ‘with gusto’ can!!

I would say 830 for the cut off for loud noises, my DH works shifts and frequently has to be up at 5.
I think you are the inconsiderate neighbour.

I agree, 10 or 10.30 is late. I think for most people 10pm to 7am is quiet time (so I would also be a bit annoyed by being woken by neighbours at 6.30) - although I note "night hours" officiallly seem to be 11pm to 7am.

If you agree a noise curfew of 9.30pm that gives your NDN at least 7 hours' sleep, and I would have thought your son would need to be in bed by around then anyway on a school night (NHS recommend 9h15 mins sleep for a 12 year old) - so doesn't seem unduly restrictive on him? Still gives him a lot of time to practice piano and play with his mates (and after those hours he could still carry on with headphones or in a room on the detached side)?

www.nhs.uk/live-well/sleep-and-tiredness/how-much-sleep-do-kids-need/

We're also in a semi with a piano not on the adjoining wall, but dd (13) has a not after 8pm rule. Our neighbours also have a piano, but I've never heard it late.

Yabvu. 9pm cut off for noise. Any why is your 12yo still on Xbox at 10pm? That's pretty awful. I would have thought 8pm for consoles ready to wind down, lights out by 10 surely, he'll never get a good night's sleep with so much stimulation before bed.

within the reasonable time to be able to play music in your own home I would have thought.

Then you thought wrong.

I had the misfortune to live in a semi with thin walls and neighbours who watched tv loudly which meant I couldn’t go to sleep until after they went to bed despite having to get up early. It was stressful, exhausting and made me ill.

Piano playing at that time is utterly ridiculous! I have a teen and hearing them shout into the headset whilst playing that blasted game sets my teeth on edge, luckily we are now detached but no way would I let them play at that time when neighbours had to get up for work in the morning.

Have some consideration.

The walls in your house must be ridiculously thin that being said I agree with everybody else as you know there is a problem with noise travelling you shouldn't be letting him play or make that much noise after 930 for example

It sounds like you have different time scale.
You think 10.00pm is a normal time and not late (owl those of behaviour’ but that 6.30 am is early. Whereas your neighbours are likely to think 6.30am is a lie in after a 5.00am start. And of course, they will see 10.00 or 10.30pm being late.

I think you have to make an effort there and accept they have a different timescale than you. Which means 10.00pm is late.
If they have younger children that are awake and making (avoidable!) noise at 6.30am and waking you up at weekends, then I would gently mention that to them (but NOT in a tit for tat type of reaction!)

Are you for real thinking it’s ok to play a piano at 10pm? My next door neighbour does this and it is ruining my life (I’ve posted about it before) just because you are used to it doesn’t mean your neighbours need to be subjected to it at all hours.

How can you not hear a piano being played in your own home?

Btw the 11.00pm cut off point you are talk about IS the so called acceptable time to stop making noise. That’s what councils would use. That’s what you see everywhere from campsites or hotels (or having a bbq in the garden) etc... Keep quiet from 11.00pm.

In reality, when you have to get up early in the am or it’s a daily occurrence, 11.00pm is too late for many people (Not being able to go to bed before that time everyday would make me ill for example - done that before) and it’s much more reasonable to stop noises are around 9.00~9.30pm.
And then keep the 11.00pm for special occasions.

YABU

Def a reverse!

You are letting him play piano and guitar and shout at his friends on the xbox after 10 at night? I would be complaining too. That's all things you can control, a baby screaming through the night isn't something you can control.

there's another post about noise today where someone rightly points out that upstairs noise seems to travel way more than downstairs noise.

It certainly does. Upstairs, I can hear the neighbours farting in bed, downstairs I only really hear them when Mr NDN is watching the racing and shouting at the horses.

A piano played "with gusto" any later than 9 or maybe 9.30 would really piss me off. And as for the gaming - why does it have to involve such a lot of shouting? DP's BIL built a games room in the garden so that they don't have to endure the sound of online gaming all evening.

Btw I’m finding the reactions on this threads quite amazing compare to the ones on the other thread currently running (the one about the washing machine running at 6.30am) and where the Op is old that it’s not the middle of night so it’s ok....

Why is it ok for a neighbour to wake her up at that time but not for a OJ their to stop someone else falling asleep in the evening is a mystery to me tbh.
Either it’s not ok to disturb your neighbours or it is.

I came on to say YABU but realise everyone else has handed you your arse. That is WAY too late and you're lucky your neighbours have sent a kind text asking to keep it down.

Yes much too late and a 12 year old needs to be settling down ready for bed at that time!

I would say 9 p.m. as a cut off for the noise too.

I think I would be friendly and tell my neighbours that we will get our son to respect a refular 9 p.m. cut off slot - so they feel less stressed in themselves (them not knowing when the noise might start)

Technically night hours are 11pm till 7am. That doesn’t mean it’s ok to make as much noise as you like outside those hours. You should be considerate of neighbours at all times. You’re aware that your neighbour has kids and is up early so why wouldn’t you just keep the noise down? We always avoid making noise after 9pm at the very latest. 10pm is far too late to be practising music and screaming. Get your son an electric piano with headphones and instil some respect for others into him.

Babies crying and children waking early is usual everyday noise and therefore perfectly acceptable.
Playing a musical instrument at 10 p.m. is not.

100% this is a reverse. No one is surely this ridiculous and oblivious. "He stopped the piano and started on guitar instead" as if that's better?! In fact it's probably worse.

That's way too late. If I could hear the piano going when I wanted to go to sleep (10pm is a common bedtime) and the neighbour then switched to guitar I would think they were taking the mick to be honest.

I'm 30 with no kids so maybe more on the "party" end of the scale than some on here and I think any unnecessary noise after 8pm isn't on. We enforce that rule if we have people over in our garden etc, it's just not considerate to everyone else.

As it happens it sounds like your neighbour dealt with this really well. They shouldn't have to give you a reason (irrelevant what time they are up in the morning) to stop making that sort of noise at that time.

When I had a normal piano, I didn't play after 9pm.
I now have a brilliant digital piano and usually practise with headphones on at any time, - hearing someone repeating the same phrase is annoying.
Amazed at the trombonist with the "quiet" violinist daughter. My daughter played the violin and it was torture from the furthest room in the house!