He divorced when his children were young, a red flag or not?

[Dontknowanything]

NC because it's a bit sensitive.
Met this guy through work / clients, seemed nice, genuine, funny and warm. We went on a couple of dates, and had all the usual "tell about yourself" talk.
From a couple of dates/ events he mentioned, I realised that he divorced his ex-wife after a brief marriage for unreasonable behaviour / mental issues when their children were quite young - around 2 years (oldest) and 6 months (youngest). He seems to be a good and involved dad now, but does not have them overnight (they are 4 and 6 now).
Is it necessarily a red flag? I feel a bit uneasy about it and has been thinking about calling it a day several times already - but then start having doubts and second thoughts, I really like the guy otherwise.

Crossed post

I think if your gut is whispering a warning, you should listen to it. I wouldn't necessarily be worried about the quick divorce or not having kids overnight in isolation but demonising the ex-wife would set my abusive man antennae off.

I guess if he didn’t tell her he was going on “sightseeing jolly’s” after hi official work trips were finished and she found out by accident say by calling his office to ask when he would be back, while all the time being left with two very young children to cope with, then going through his emails or phone might be understandable, especially if she posted on Mumsnet about it and people were goading her to do it.

I think if you like him and are prepared to spend a bit more time getting to know him you might get more of the backstory and be able to get a fuller picture of what happened in his previous relationship. I don't think we can give you good advice based on a few snippets of information.

On MN you will get a variety of responses as the people who post here have had a variety of life experiences. Only you can decide if he is worth more of your time.

Adding extra days to work trips for sightseeing when he has a toddler and a baby at home with a mother struggling with her mental health? What a catch.

*I would judge a man who upped and left two tiny kids, one only a few months old. In my experience men who do this are selfish, can't adjust to not being number one anymore and are impatient with how the woman might have been impacted, both physically and mentally, by pregnancy, childbirth etc.

His ex's mental health was hardly going to improve by being left with sole care of two tiny kids was it? And the fact that he doesn't even have them overnight but you call him a good and involved Dad? Men really only need to do the bare minimum of acknowledging their kids to be praised don't they.*
100% what bluestitch said

I think the fact you are questioning if this is a red flag (and personally I think it is) shows that your instincts are trying to tell you something. You would be unwise to ignore them!

I'd not be at all impressed though that he stayed away for sightseeing days when his wife was at home with two babies. It points to him being a selfish man who doesn't pull his weight as a parent.

I used to work in a mostly male work environment and I can think of two married men who travelled frequently for work and prolonged their trips to spend time with “lady” friends and another single man who had a “girl friend in every port” and you knew he was on his way back to the office as his landline would start ringing with various ladies wanting to speak to him. It’s very hard to answer the phone when you know the woman on the other end is probably being cheated on but you have to come up with an excuse where he is.

He was staying away for sightseeing trips on top of work trips? Leaving his wife with an infant and a toddler? She would have every right to be furious. And instead of reassuring her or cutting out fun trips away, he leaves her? No one knows the truth but it's very easy and common to reframe any legitimate concerns or unhappiness as crazy wife's jealousy. If you stay with him long term, it may not be wise to expect much support with any children you have together.

I wonder how many sightseeing weekends away his wife had without the children.

Did he stay on for these sightseeing trips when his wife was at home with a baby and two year old???

Also, just because he works away a lot with work, that is no reason not to have his own kids stay the night with him. Like others have said, that is more of an issue to me. That doesn't sound like a good father.

I think it warrants more information. There can be a plethora of reasons for the divorce. You also often hear people thinking having another baby will cement an already rocky relationship. I personally know someone (my cousin) whose ex wife decided to divorce him, completely changing after having their son and not wanting to have anything to do with my cousin. Put up so many obstacles for visitation. It wasn’t until he moved jobs and had funds that he could take legal action for contact and years before he got any overnight access (with ex breaching almost e dry court order too). For your man could be any reason, just so many things. It’s also a few years ago, things could’ve changed in that time frame too. Suggest you find out more, takes things slowly, ensure you meet long term friends and also his family to help build an overall picture of this man, his character and history.

If I was at home with a toddler and a baby, and my husband extended his work trip by a couple of days for sightseeing, there's a strong chance I'd go pretty ballistic!

I suspect there may have been another woman involved....

That said, I wouldn't necessarily write this man off, as long as he was very honest about what happened and took his share of the blame for the end of the marriage. It's very off-putting when people portray themselves as totally blameless in these situations.

I’m curious as to whether you have children yourself OP and if not think he could be “the one”.

Would you judge a woman who left an abusive partner ??

My sister has mental health issues, we view her partner as a blessed Saint because most people would have fucked off years ago. The abuse she heaps on him is unreal. He spent the last 2 Christmas sleeping in his car because she decided it wasn't happening that year and he was too ashamed to tell anyone how bad things were, she once announced to a pub (( in front of him )) that they don't have sex very often because he has problems getting it up (( issues relating to historic CSA )) she's ruined birthday parties, weddings, even his own dad's death which she made all about her. All fuelled by paranoia and jealousy.

So no. I wouldn't judge a good and involved dad who walked away, I wouldn't even judge him for not having them overnight because there's a good chance the batty ex won't allow it and it's easier to give her that last bit of control than fight it, start it all up again and potentially lose contact for months at a time whilst it's battled out in court.

It might be a red flag.

Life is tricky with a two year old and a six month old. I'd have in the back of my mind that he might be the type of guy that jumps ship when things get hard and those guys really are dead wood.

I would definitely want to know more.

Why would it be a red flag? Plenty of couples split up before the baby is even born, let alone afterwards. Or do you think he should have stayed in a miserable relationship just because of his childrens' ages?

However his lack of contact with his children would be a red flag. He should be having them regularly and that includes overnights. Working away isn't a reason not to parent your children!

In my experience men who do this are selfish, can't adjust to not being number one anymore and are impatient with how the woman might have been impacted, both physically and mentally, by pregnancy, childbirth etc.

What a completely unnecessary offensive stereotype of men here. . You may have had bad experiences but that does not mean all situations will be like that nor that all men think like that.

Op, you are most likely not going to get any actual useful opinions here as it will soon descend into man hating by people who don't know the full situation. If it were me, i'd ask for a serious conversation to discuss what actually happened to cause this. If he skirts around it or is hesitant than yes, you have reason to be cautious.

If it's making you uneasy, there's a reason.

How often does he have his children? How far away from them does he live?

He left his ex when their youngest was 6 months old due to potential mental health issues - could this have been related to the birth(s)? How tolerant was he of the impact that having two young children was having on her, particularly when he was travelling for work - and why on earth was he adding time onto these trips for sightseeing??

Of course no-one should remain in an unhappy marriage, but it just seems that there might be more to this than first meets the eye.

The divorce alone wouldn’t be.

The fact that he doesn’t have his kids overnight would be (as they’re old enough for overnight contact to be the norm, not little babies).

As would the “crazy jealous ex” routine. I know there are some crazy jealous exes out there... but I reckon there are far more men who use it as a bullshit excuse for their lack of parenting of their kids and to boost their own egos.

Well, if you're having doubts now - think about the future/reality/challenges of being a SM & a blended family. If reading all the MN threads doesn't put you off, you should question why he left his young DC with a "mental" ex DW.

Do people end marriages over that?

Sounds like a stressed wife left with the kids and completely trapped and maybe with a bit of PTSD or PND.

Dating someone with young children when you have no children of your own is quite a challenge so that’s something to consider. I wouldn’t necessarily consider their divorce a red flag, having two children close together can drive even the strongest of couples apart.