He divorced when his children were young, a red flag or not?

[Dontknowanything]

NC because it's a bit sensitive.
Met this guy through work / clients, seemed nice, genuine, funny and warm. We went on a couple of dates, and had all the usual "tell about yourself" talk.
From a couple of dates/ events he mentioned, I realised that he divorced his ex-wife after a brief marriage for unreasonable behaviour / mental issues when their children were quite young - around 2 years (oldest) and 6 months (youngest). He seems to be a good and involved dad now, but does not have them overnight (they are 4 and 6 now).
Is it necessarily a red flag? I feel a bit uneasy about it and has been thinking about calling it a day several times already - but then start having doubts and second thoughts, I really like the guy otherwise.

Believe whatever you want. Clearly men arent allowed to suffer abuse. Once again, mumsnet sexism trumps all.

Yeah, yeah he was the victim. We're all abuse supporters. The courts hate men. Fathers4justice are a good bunch...If it hasn't got traction by now, we're not going to fall for it.

Actually it's you who is denying abuse that was proven in court because you know him, and he's such a great bloke and would never do that. You are disbelieving an abuse victim who has proven her case through the legal system, and you call me insensitive?

He is a very close friend so I was very much involved in the situation to know how she manipulated it.

Grey, you were 17yo at the time. What sort of man has a 17yo very involved in his marriage and its breakdown? I think he may have manipulated you.

Yes, red flag. If it was the wife who kicked him out - even more of a red flag.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/21/abusive-men-everywhere-lena-dunham

This is a good article by Jess Philips is on the topic of why we believe our friends/people close to use when they’re accused of abuse. She’s got a lot of experience in domestic violence.

It doesn’t matter that you’ve been friends with him for 10 years. Abusers are extremely manipulative and a judge ruled that he was indeed an abuser.

Also “calling the police about false reports of violence” how can you fake violence? Surely she’d have injuries? And nasty emails wouldn’t have been enough for him not be not allowed custody.

@DioneTheDiabolist you dug up my posts just to look at my age?

No he didn't manipulate me and I don't revel my true age on the internet so I wasn't 17 years old.

What stunts me is that this is being repeated I am well aware that men can be abused. I am also very aware that the "I am the victim here" trope is regularly trotted out by abusive men and addicts.
but somehow everyone is ignoring that that's exactly what @Greyt is saying happened. Just exchange the word men for women.
Unbelievable how incomprehensible it is for some that the one with the vagina could actually sometimes be the bad person

Sorry my last post came across wrong. I have rounded down in my age previously as didn't feel comfortable stating it but I was 23 when I met him and have known if for ESTIMATED decade. Not exactly, maybe 1 or 2 years less.

Not that any of this matters as I am lying according to everyone anyways

@GreytExpectations

Are you a woman?? I’m so confused. I just assumed you were a male friend. Is this guy your boyfriend or something? If so he’s spun you a line.

@InspectorClouseauMNdivision omg THANK YOU! Dear god, there is actually some sense.

A year here or there doesnt make a difference. Only a "special" sort of man gets teenaged girls very much involved in their marriage and its breakdown Grey.

Not lying, just believing everything your friend says and disbelieving somebody who proved abuse against them in court.

@Hithere12 I am a woman, I even said my "dh and I" at one point. You assumed a woman wouldn't trust an abuse victim if he were male? No, he is not and was not my boyfriend at any point

Unbelievable how incomprehensible it is for some that the one with the vagina could actually sometimes be the bad personshock

How naive can you be?? An actual court found this man to not be fit to have custody of his own children. It’s not he said she said.

@Bluestitch She didn't prove it, she manipulated a situation. So yes, you are accusing an abuse victim of lying

@GreyExpectations I do not support marital abuse if it is male to female, female to male or female to female or male to male.
Maybe in your friends case there was abuse. But in most cases the courts bend over backwards to keep children in contact with both parents nowadays.

The new offence of Parental Alienation can even be used to prosecute in the cases where there is contact by both parents but one tries to influence the Child against the other. And this has been used successfully recently to give residencey to a father where the mother was abusive.

But if a father can't be bothered to fight for his children (and don't plead poverty etc. just read the extent a lot of women got to on these boards for their children, including representing themselves in court); especially if he believes their mother is "crazy".
Then in those circumstances I do judge him as not being bothered.

Just as I would judge a woman who did not "fight" to have access to her children when their father is "crazy".

An actual court found this man to not be fit to have custody of his own children. It’s not he said she said.

No a woman lied in court.

Unbelievable how incomprehensible it is for some that the one with the vagina could actually sometimes be the bad person

What is incomprehensible and unbelievable is that the court have denied all access for the man to his own children based entirely on falsified claims of DV against his spouse. Such a claim requires extraordinary evidence in order to be believed. And, certainly on MN, women saying the same would be (and have been) met with disbelief.

And yes it actually was he said, she said. There was no proof other than her (lying) words.

Her complaints were upheld by the court, presumably after a fact finding and giving of evidence?

It would be a red flag for the combination of reasons, leaving whilst children were so young, given he could have stopped after 1 child would he also say he was tricked into the pg? He has a non amicable divorce, most men would be keen to smooth over troubled waters and for implying she is mental.

Run OP, at a minimum he does not have a good character and more likely he is abusive.

An actual courts sends innocent people to prison 🤷‍♀️ The fact that court said x doesn't mean it's 100% true

Obviously there is a number of dipshits who will try this type of defence so people feel sorry for them, but that doesn't mean all men do.

What exactly do you all want form me? I'm telling you the truth, I trust a close friend and I think its shocking people don't realize how easily women can manipulate the situation. We all show shock at blaming the victim except in the case where its a man.

I'm not going to go against my friends suffering based on a bunch of man haters on mumsnet. You wont believe it no matter what I say

Oops, sorry, x post.

He hasnt seen his kids for 10 years. You have known him less than 10 years. You haven't the first clue what happened in his marriage. All you know is what he has told you Grey.

As I said, the "I'm the victim here" trope is very common amongst abusive men and addicts.