To think a not-insignificant proportion of MNers genuinely have no clue...

[TheTitOfTheIceberg]

...what it's like to not have much money?

This is not a TAAT but it's been prompted by a recent comment on a thread which was just the latest in a long line that make it clear that what some people take for granted is far beyond the reach of others. Which in itself is fair enough and hardly profound - this is a website with members across the whole economic spectrum, after all. But I've observed many times that there are some posters who, when the OP says "I can't afford X" seem downright disbelieving. "But it's not that expensive / it's only the equivalent of [some other luxury item which the OP is also very unlikely to be able to afford]".

Or when an OP is posting in bits - and clearly is in quite straitened circumstances - about their DP being an arse, someone will invariably post "book a night in a hotel/weekend away with your friends at a bloody spa no doubt and leave him with kids" without any apparent recognition that for some of us, a night in a hotel or a weekend away is something that has to be carefully budgeted for if it's even financially feasible at all.

It's not the disparity in incomes between posters that bothers me; there are plenty of no doubt comfortably-off MNers who post sensitively and helpfully in all kinds of situations. But there is a tranche who just seem oblivious to their financial privilege or to the fact that some of us are living hand to mouth, month on month with nothing left over after rent/mortgage, essential bills and food have been paid for, and then seem incredulous when we don't pay for, as standard, the goods or services they take for granted.

AIBU to find this both irritating, and an illuminating (sometimes bonkersly endearing) window into a world I will never inhabit, on my below-national-average salary with my disabled-and-no-longer-able-to-work DH?

I do love the poster who decide to call other people's experience a "race to the bottom" grin. Oh the insult!

I'm not sure whether you're misunderstanding me deliberately or have genuinely failed to comprehend.

DHhasahobbyanditsnotcycling

I have lived in 5 different countries 2 of them third world so you can't patronise me with the fact you've lived outside of the UK.

You said in the UK the only thing people miss out on is fun. This is factual incorrect. A child who is malnourished is missing out on nutrition not fun. A person who can't attend a medical appointment is not missing out on fun. A medical appointment is not fun. A family who is living in unsafe conditions is not missing out on fun.

Yes you are describing a race to the bottom. You say that if someone doesn't literally imminently die their suffering doesn't matter. You lack basic empathy.

OP, you are not being unreasonable. I do believe some people have very little idea what it is like to be poor and often make comments that aren't helpful. I have possibly been guilty of it myself. I am not sure why your thread has been hijacked into "they should count themselves lucky they aren't in the dessert in Africa", thread though. Hungry is hungry, worrying about keeping a roof over your head is terrifying no matter where you are. I often think some of the silly advice about cutting back on your clavier shop and bulk buying is probably well meant. I like the fact that these posters who haven't ever been hungry are still caring enough to post advice and support to others... Even if it's a bit shit advice. ☺️

I would say having access to the internet is increasingly becoming essential rather than a luxury, school,s for example make an assumption that kids have access to the internet and often set homework online, job applications, benefit applications are increasingly done online ,yes people could do this at libraries but lots of libraries have closed down and even if they haven't there are often long ques, obviously there is relative and absolute poverty, but in th e Everybody's basic needs should be met (I realise this is not always the case ).

Cross post TheTit!

DHhasahobbyanditsnotcycling's posts remind me about that saying:

"Never play chess with a pigeon.

The pigeon just knocks all the pieces over.

Then shits all over the board.

Then struts around like it won"

She has literally described a malnourished child who can't attend medical appointments as missing out on nothing more than "fun" and when people point out that this is ridiculous she struts off saying we've all proved her point. Laughable!

UserName31456789

You said in the UK the only thing people miss out on is fun.
Nowhere have I said that. You keep insisting I did, and are basing all your posts about it. Just read properly.

Why do you insist on talking about "fun" and twisting my posts. You are the one who is fixated about fun, no one else.

oh dear, here's another one

BIgBagofJelly
if you want to comment on my posts, read them instead of basing your comments on somebody else's comment who twisted my post in the first place

I can't be bothered, and leave you at your race to the bottom.

I am not sure why your thread has been hijacked into "they should count themselves lucky they aren't in the dessert in Africa", thread though.

They should count themselves lucky though. I once spent three weeks trapped in a sherry trifle in Botswana. To this day I can’t look at a sponge finger without wincing.

@DHhasahobbyanditsnotcycling

I read that you literally said if you're not dying of starvation then it's not a problem. That is exactly what is meant by a race to the bottom. You said that "poverty is relative" and some people are dying of starvation so poverty in the UK doesn't matter. That is a race to the bottom. What you're doing is literally what the phrase means. Exactly what it means.

You say "oh no not another one" every time someone points out your flawed thinking rather than actually applying any thought to what is being said.

Spot on, Nikita and SGB. As for 'go and see real poverty in Africa/Asia/etc', well, no thanks, I'm already from one of those places. The result in such a huge gap between rich and poor is extreme violence, cartels/gangs running things and slavery. Racing to the bottom here in the UK is the most dumb fucking nowhere shit I've seen in my life, which has largely been quite shit.

The fact that politicians have no idea what it is like is far worse than MNers.

That is exactly what is meant by a race to the bottom. You said that "poverty is relative" and some people are dying of starvation so poverty in the UK doesn't matter. That is a race to the bottom. What you're doing is literally what the phrase means. Exactly what it means.

Actually that’s not what it means at all. It’s one of the most misused phrases on MN. It’s a financial term meaning a race to the bottom line - i.e. several competitors battling it out to be the cheapest in their field.

Noun

English

race to the bottom (plural races to the bottom)

1. (economics) A situation in which competition between governments leads to very excessive (harmful) deregulation.

1. A situation in which competition between entities leads to elimination of perks or amenities, often in the interest of cutting costs.

1. Any situation in which multiple parties are seemingly competing to achieve the greatest level of mediocrity.

Oh, and those posters trying to suggest that no one is 'really' poor in the UK because of smartphones and all the champagne and caviare they can get from foodbanks - bear in mind that the United Nations has described the deliberately induced poverty in the UK as a breach of international human rights... Because the poverty so many people are suffering has been deliberately induced. Benefits administrators are given targets: cut off so many people's money per week or it will be you out of work and having to grovel and visit the foodbank. More and more infrastructure is being privatised so that the focus of schools, transport, healthcare etc becomes profit for shareholders rather than providing necessary services. Teaching staff, who are not that well paid themselves, bring in food for pupils as otherwise those pupils are unable to concentrate in lessons: one of the worst things I read in a report about poverty and hunger in the UK was a teacher saying that children cry at the end of the day because they know they are going back to a cold, dark house with no food. Schools are having to offer things like the use of a washing machine so that kids can have clean clothes; the use of chargers so that parents can at least attempt to apply for jobs online, holiday clubs which provide food ooutside termtime - and all this done with ever-decreasing school funding.

I'm afraid this is society .

Many people live in bubbles

ReanimatedSGB. Your post made me really sad, the thought of little kids not getting a decent dinner breaks my heart. We fundraised for a washing machine at my school and do cereal and fruit donations, old uniform etc. Today is a shit day for us. My husband is a builder, he had to leave a job last week as they changed the goal posts. Instead of paying him £960(contracted and promised) for the back breaking work he did they changed the prices halfway through. I told him to finish the week and get off the site, otherwise you get stuck working like a dog for half minimum wage. Some of the guys have no choice but to stay as they don't have the skill set and experience to move on and they are not in a position to go without a weeks wages. Low and behold there is £0 in the bank this morning and we find ourselves pretty well fucked. Or we would be if I didn't have awesome parents who will help with a food shop, ensure any bailiff bills (council tax) and the rent is covered. My husband picked up a job straightaway, thank heavens so we only have to go one week without money. So there but for the grace of God go I. I feel sick for families who aren't lucky enough to have the support I have, I feel furious that there are at least 8 lads I know of trapped working for £280 a week for 50 hours of dangerous back breaking work because they can't afford that one week without money. Of course we will go to the small claims court, of course we will contact Redrow who sub contract this particular firm but it happens all the time. The extra wages redrow are paying basically goes in the forman's pocket and no one ever says anything because they are trapped in the cycle. Sorry abit rambly. I always think you should help where you can but poverty is age old and there always seems to be someone creaming off the most vulnerable.

Mammatino, that's awful. Might be worth having a word with the local paper, as well: what this contractor has done is illegal and they should be named, shamed and shut down.