To think a not-insignificant proportion of MNers genuinely have no clue...

[TheTitOfTheIceberg]

...what it's like to not have much money?

This is not a TAAT but it's been prompted by a recent comment on a thread which was just the latest in a long line that make it clear that what some people take for granted is far beyond the reach of others. Which in itself is fair enough and hardly profound - this is a website with members across the whole economic spectrum, after all. But I've observed many times that there are some posters who, when the OP says "I can't afford X" seem downright disbelieving. "But it's not that expensive / it's only the equivalent of [some other luxury item which the OP is also very unlikely to be able to afford]".

Or when an OP is posting in bits - and clearly is in quite straitened circumstances - about their DP being an arse, someone will invariably post "book a night in a hotel/weekend away with your friends at a bloody spa no doubt and leave him with kids" without any apparent recognition that for some of us, a night in a hotel or a weekend away is something that has to be carefully budgeted for if it's even financially feasible at all.

It's not the disparity in incomes between posters that bothers me; there are plenty of no doubt comfortably-off MNers who post sensitively and helpfully in all kinds of situations. But there is a tranche who just seem oblivious to their financial privilege or to the fact that some of us are living hand to mouth, month on month with nothing left over after rent/mortgage, essential bills and food have been paid for, and then seem incredulous when we don't pay for, as standard, the goods or services they take for granted.

AIBU to find this both irritating, and an illuminating (sometimes bonkersly endearing) window into a world I will never inhabit, on my below-national-average salary with my disabled-and-no-longer-able-to-work DH?

There`s always people worse off than me and people better off than me. Sometimes I used to think it would be nice to have so much money you never have to worry. But then you see how miserable some rich folk are and think nah.

Not ignoring them It’s still a life style choice.

fine, but by the same token not having 3 jobs and complaining you are poor is a lifestyle choice too then.

A choice to stay in your deprived area
a choice not to work more
a choice to have more children that you can afford

so we are back at the beginning.

Another one -

We have a great standard of living on £20k pa
[ doesn't mention mortgage-free/no childcare costs etc and acts surprised when people pull them up on this]

My DH has never really been poor. We didn’t have much money when our children were small, but as he didn’t live with the day to day of that and I kept it all afloat, he didn’t really ‘live’ it. I honestly think he’s worse off for it! He isn’t not getting why others can’t afford certain things, but he has no concept of what is overpriced, no understanding of working something out to its best financial advantage. He just kind of doesn’t care about money one way or another. I have been that skint person eating boiled rice and an egg. Taking napkins and ketchup out of M&S and sugar and anything I could use indoors, really. Now everything I buy is quite lovely, we can afford not to worry, but certainly not loaded. Not having to worry is such a blissful luxury, that unless you’ve ever had absolutely nothing and felt sick with anxiety because of it, you’re not really going to fully understand. One of the reasons I’d be so keen for my children to go to uni is so that they can get their skint years in before they start having mortgages and children or whatever they choose to do. I think that knowing how to scrape by is horrible when you’re doing it, but ultimately is an essential life skill.

Also think some of the worst offenders are people that have come from nothing and done ok, they appear to look back on their poverty years with a pair of rosy specs.
Yes you might have been able to live if a bag off King Edwards for a month back in the day and you didn’t have Wi-fi then, but it was a different era then and if it’s so bloody great what’s stopping you going back then.

lisasimpsonssaxophone
true, but on the same token people like me could only afford to buy a property because we chose to wait before having kids, we lived in a dump for months, had no furniture etc and bought in a shit place to start with. It paid off, but not everybody started with a trust fund either.

but it was a different era then and if it’s so bloody great what’s stopping you going back then.

what would be the point of that?!

I am baffled by the fact that a problem can be improved by going to a spa, you have to come home again........

Conversely, people on a low wage don’t seem to understand it is possible to earn more than them, even twice as much and still struggle. I know the whole “is 150k enough in London” is done to death, but it is definitely the case that someone on 30k in London is less well off than someone on 30k in a less expensive area. Dare anyone mention they struggle on a higher wage and it becomes the Yorkshiremen’s race to the bottom.

A significant proportion of MN generally seem to struggle with understanding anyone who lives a different life to them and judge by their own standards whether they be earning 10k or 100k. From what I see, people are far more sympathetic if someone mentions being on a low wage, than they are if someone is on a higher wage. Apparently having money means you aren’t entitled to be struggling in any way.

IfCakeHappens are you here to attack poor people? Maybe 3 jobs would not be feasible. Many poor people have children and would struggle to get child care for three jobs. Maybe they can't avoid to move out of their deprived area.

Well, of course you don’t have a clue if you never been poor. Why would you?! I don’t have a clue what it’s like to live in Bangkok because I’ve never been there. Does that mean I deserve the eye-rolling and ridicule of a Thai person? Or maybe, just maybe, you can patiently explain what it’s like, educate me a bit and I’ll become a more understanding and thoughtful person for the next time.

I’d say icakehappens is the kind of person I’m talking about

Oh, yes, the nostalgia bores. Being poor sucks no matter what decade it was in.

Itsnotmesothere
IfCakeHappens are you here to attack poor people?

Not at all, I am mocking posters who complain that posters don't have a clue when they are doing exactly the same and make judgemental assumptions about others.

But for those narrow-minded individuals, it only works one way.

They just exactly prove the point that some people do not have a clue at all.

It always ceases to amaze me when people don't understand that Internet is priority these days.

I think people live in there own bubble and fail to see what's outside of it.

Me and DH are meant to have loads of money because we don't have children! According to some mumsnetters we must be eating out practically every night and going on expensive holidays all the time.

I am not saying we are really hard up but we certainly can't afford to eat out very often (about once a month if we are lucky) and just about afford a holiday most years although nothing pricey - usually a mobile home somewhere like Holland.

I have a friend who is always moaning on facebook that she is hard up. She goes on holiday abroad at least 3 times a year and not cheap holidays either. She recently bought herself a brand new car and is always buying clothes, handbags etc. Last week she bought wallpaper for her spare bedroom. It cost £62 a roll! She so annoys me

Unfortunately lots of people say "I can't afford it" when actually what they mean is "I choose to spend my money in other ways".
That means if your only knowledge of someone is a 2 line post, you have no way of knowing if they (eg) could afford their child's school trip if they stopped going to Starbucks every day or whether they really are down to their last fiver this month and trying to decide whether to spend it on food or heating.
Some people also have very high overheads by choice e.g. my brother sends 3 children to private school and has 2 holidays abroad each year, yet is always skint when it comes to day to day.

mydogisthebest your friend is exactly the sort of person I was talking about earlier. Chances are she is living way beyond her means and can’t grasp that not everyone wants to do that.

Mn does tend to have a range of people. Yabu and yanbu. Honestly the feel of sofa surfing and not knowing where i be the next night and where i can eat will never leave me. I was lucky we had parents who stepped in to offer a bed in their house. Dread to think what we done if they hadnt. If it wasnt for the free library internet access (limited to an hour but the staff knew he was applying so kept renewed his access) my dh not got his next job which led to this one. Its vvv hard getting a job without an address. My job was temp. The fear that everything can change in a second..ill never forget. Both dh and i dont shop for clothes etc. think we need to start soon as after ten years of no new clothes everything is in rags. Ive a friend at the moment living in a bed and breakfast with a toddler (something ive done) and its hard...vvv hard

@TIT

t was neither a priority nor a life choice for my husband to become disabled Unicorn, so even there there’s an assumption that not being able to afford several hundred pounds to pay for a particular service is somehow because of poor choices. I didn’t assume you’re minted but I do believe you’re lacking in imagination and empathy. You’ve proved ChicCroissant’s point though, so I apologise to her. Apparently there are some people who have been hard up yet still assume people could find several hundred pounds if only they made different choices and that it’s abnormal not to be able to do so.

No poor you, and in the spirit of competitive worse off-ness, my partner cant work either, he has a terminal illness, he'll die.

When we talk about life choices, we choose many paths, every day, each of which has different consequences. Like the posters up threads, I too have worked two-three jobs at a time to avoid repossession. I could have made the choice not to. I could have boo-hoo-hoo-ed when I was made redundant, but I didn't , I went straight into agencies and did some really shitty, low paid, arse end menial jobs until I made a successful job application that made use of my skill set. I made the choice to keep working and not SAH. I could have made a different choice. I made a choice not to drink, smoke, get spray tans, shellac or credit cards for foreign holidays, or lay out hundreds for status symbol dogs. I made the choice to invest in education. So you see, @TIT we all make choices, every day. My choices are different to yours. I'm ultra conservative, I cant stand the thought of returning to those days of the choice of commuting or food. You obviously have different priorities. People who have been truly poor will try to claw their way out. I did everything humanly possible to keep a job, a house and a pension. What you didn't like was simple illustration on how to manage a pension. You saw it as an affront, 'not normal' to manage money appropriately. Largely, but now always, that is why there are always endless money management threads, inability to prioritise and budget. Thankfully it is now taught in schools but I appreciate the 'have it all generation' stuck it all on tick and haven't got a clue how they are going to pay any of it off.

RedSkyLastNight
I agree with you.
Can't afford can mean very different things to different people and some of it is absolutely 'I don't want to spend my money another way'.

One of my family friends insists on telling me how 'lucky' DH and I are for having middle of the road cars, our own house, modest holiday a year, but they fail to link that to time spent developing career (vs job hopping every year because you don't like it), not going out for lunch and tea, not nipping out for coffee, not buying new shoes because they're 'cute', not taking long weekends to see friends or doing mini breaks, doing one weekly shop vs lots of top up shops etc. We live a comfortable lifestyle and are grateful for that, but it certainly isn't luck compared to their comparable situation but with lower paying jobs and living beyond their means.

@BertrandRussell

(b)What pisses me off is the money saving advice that you have to have some money to do- like bulk buying, or going to an out of town big supermarket, or buying cheap cuts of meat that it takes loads of fuel to cook. Politicians are particularly good at that sort of advice...(b)

I got into a huge debate with someone on BBC Have Your Say about this a few years ago. They were adamant it was "cheaper to cook from scratch than eat junk" and refused to accept that; you can't grow your own herbs if you don't have space for as much as a window box, batch cooking is really hard if you don't have a car /a freezer / plenty of storage space, that work and transport might mean you have to go to the nearest shop not the cheapest one or the one with the best range, that leaving a slow cooker on all day needs electricity etc etc.

I've never been in that position and hopefully never will but people who don't get "no money" drive me mad. A friend once tried to arrange a free day out for another friend who was skint and never realised I had to transfer her £10 so she could get the train.

Ha I remember the best argument I’ve ever won, on a forum like MN full of posturing about how cheap cooking from scratch is and how awful processed food is, in particular, a bundle that Iceland happened to be selling that week- a frozen meat product (think it was sausages) frozen toast potatoes and a frozen vegetable, designed as a sort of alternative family roast to feed 4. It was about £3 I think.

After pages and pages of this outrage at how awful Iceland was promoting this obesity causing junk I challenged them to find a cheaper meal. No one did, so I asked again and again until finally some
Poor sod actually did try, and came back with dried pasta, tinned tomatoes and courgettes. 😭😭😭 what a meal. She then couldn’t understand why a poor family might prefer the sausages and how her meal wasn’t actually, particularly significantly healthier than the frozen bundle

And you see that all the time on MN. There is a thread going on right now blaming the obesity crisis on poor people

Sausages, roast potatoes and frozen veg is a perfectly good meal

@pianotuner567 It is not the fact that other people have not experienced poverty but the fact they offer stupid solutions. The same scenario about Bangkok would be you coming here and trying to give someone who lives there advice about Thai culture.

I've been very poor and luckily am doing ok right now but understand remember far too well the grinding worry over trying to pay for essentials.