To think a not-insignificant proportion of MNers genuinely have no clue...

[TheTitOfTheIceberg]

...what it's like to not have much money?

This is not a TAAT but it's been prompted by a recent comment on a thread which was just the latest in a long line that make it clear that what some people take for granted is far beyond the reach of others. Which in itself is fair enough and hardly profound - this is a website with members across the whole economic spectrum, after all. But I've observed many times that there are some posters who, when the OP says "I can't afford X" seem downright disbelieving. "But it's not that expensive / it's only the equivalent of [some other luxury item which the OP is also very unlikely to be able to afford]".

Or when an OP is posting in bits - and clearly is in quite straitened circumstances - about their DP being an arse, someone will invariably post "book a night in a hotel/weekend away with your friends at a bloody spa no doubt and leave him with kids" without any apparent recognition that for some of us, a night in a hotel or a weekend away is something that has to be carefully budgeted for if it's even financially feasible at all.

It's not the disparity in incomes between posters that bothers me; there are plenty of no doubt comfortably-off MNers who post sensitively and helpfully in all kinds of situations. But there is a tranche who just seem oblivious to their financial privilege or to the fact that some of us are living hand to mouth, month on month with nothing left over after rent/mortgage, essential bills and food have been paid for, and then seem incredulous when we don't pay for, as standard, the goods or services they take for granted.

AIBU to find this both irritating, and an illuminating (sometimes bonkersly endearing) window into a world I will never inhabit, on my below-national-average salary with my disabled-and-no-longer-able-to-work DH?

I learned MN was a different league when I saw a post about kitchen bin recommendations. There were recommendations of £200 bins.

A £200 container to temporarily store rubbish.

Oh, yes, priorities, if you are poor it is entirely because of your priorities and life choices.

I don't think you can make sweeping statements. I often see on here only the rich, or those who've had huge parental handouts can afford property these days. That's not my situation, grew up working class and very aware of not having enough money. DH and I both had two jobs for years and still work overtime, even though we are both professionals to be able to get on the property ladder, pay for our wedding, make sure we can afford to have a baby. We've been careful about how we save and spend and I see a lot of people on here who are not and then complain they'll never buy a house because mummy and daddy can't buy it for them.

There's also the assertion that unless you spend less than twenty pounds a week on groceries and make a chicken last a fortnight you're loaded. It's just as bad that end of the spectrum. Eg a poster is asking about saving or buying an item and because they're on more than minimum wage and don't have provident knocking on the door every Friday, you get 'you should count yourself lucky I haven't had my hair cut for five years/new jeans for a decade/we only eat dust to save money' and so on. It's all annoying.

YABmassivelyU to assume that these people have been comfortable all their lives and never experienced that kind of situation themselves.

^this

We are comfortable now but back in the late 80s, early 90s I was working three jobs trying to keep a roof over our heads. Lives change.

Yanbu. I’m comfortably off with supportive parents but work with people experiencing poverty.

IME poverty often leads to worse poverty. Your washing machine breaks, you have to get a payday loan at ridiculous interest to fix it. Go into an unauthorised overdraft, you have to pay £5 a day for the privilege. Get into rent arrears, you’ll be evicted and have to get whatever accommodation you can, even an expensive substandard private let. Which might be unattainable if you don’t have a deposit and because many are “no DSS”. Go onto universal credit, you’ll need to sign up for a loan if you can’t wait up to 6 weeks for payment, which you’ll then have to pay back. Get a zero hours contract and it will make it much harder to get benefits. Don’t have a phone or internet, how will you get informed of your job interview? Etc etc.

Many Mumsnet users seem to have a very poor understanding of poverty and seem to not understand that it is possible to have absolutely no money and have to use foodbanks.

It was neither a priority nor a life choice for my husband to become disabled Unicorn, so even there there’s an assumption that not being able to afford several hundred pounds to pay for a particular service is somehow because of poor choices.

I didn’t assume you’re minted but I do believe you’re lacking in imagination and empathy. You’ve proved ChicCroissant’s point though, so I apologise to her. Apparently there are some people who have been hard up yet still assume people could find several hundred pounds if only they made different choices and that it’s abnormal not to be able to do so.

Do you have any idea what it’s like to live with a large income? Or many children? Or disabled? Or with an abusive husband? Or within a different religion?

I'm capable of knowing things outside my own experience through a combination of reading/ watching the news/ talking to people and empathy and when I find I'm lacking, I keep my mouth shut.

Spot on, kiki. Just like the phrase 'Money breeds money'.

@howwudufeel I doubt that most people are very rich on here, but a lot are probably very bad at managing their money

Yours is exactly the sort of attitude that anyone who's broke finds so offensive. To be good at managing money you have to have some money to manage in the first place! I've been so broke I had about £5 to last me a fortnight and it's bloody grim. You never forget it. In my case it means I don't judge other people for being hard up or homeless, and always try to help out when I can because I know how shitty it is.

Sabine That wasn’t the point I was making actually. I was stating that a lot of the ‘just book a spa day’ brigade don’t understand the concept of money. I don’t dispute that it’s shit to be broke, having been there myself.

It's never going to work to generalise, let's be honest. Of course, some people are really unlucky, some are lazy, some are bad at managing money, some have the wrong priorities, some have huge financial help from family, free childcare, and lots of help.
It's ridiculous to put everybody in the same boat though. You might leave in identical houses but arrived there in very different ways.

The truth is that there are a wide range of people on MN with a wide range of situations. People tend to respond with suggestions that reflect their own situation and experience. Good and bad, rich and poor. A little more give and take all round would be more helpful.

I agree Sabine, I was trying not to bite so as not to be that chippy competitively-poor poster but it is fucking annoying - my car is 13 years old, what few new clothes I buy for work come from charity shops, our only holiday in the last five years was three days in Somerset, I don’t have Sky, a credit card, an expensive mobile phone contract or the ubiquitous goat and even my flat screen TV was second hand off Freecycle. And even then I know I’m lucky to be in a position where I’m paying a mortgage on what will one day be my own house and not having to use a foodbank so I’m by no means as badly off as I could be (and indeed have been).

We have been really hard up in the past and it was awful ; years living like it is soul destroying and even a weekend in a borrowed tent or a ' sun' weekend with vouchers ( id ask my in laws to save them up as I wouldn't want to actually buy that paoer myself ! ) would be a real treat, but would have to be carefully managed and every penny accounted for. We were also much poorer than our friends and that made things even more miserable. They would be going off to the Caribbean!
Others can't comprehend this though. Things are a bit better now but I've learnt not to expect too much as it easily go back to those days. Anyone on here saying they are skint , I feel for them. It's bloody hard work and things are way more expensive than they were in my day too. I can sympathise completely.

My DH is unable to imagine circumstances different to his own. I spent a few years nearly homeless and hungry and when i try to explain how it was, he just can't comprehend that there was no money and no choice. I think he thinks i could have gone back to my parents and it would all have been fine. Even when i explain that my current food hoarding probably stems from having to scout round the market at the end of the day looking for leftover/waste food, he still seems to think that was a choice i made, rather than a necessity. Maybe, for some people, if you haven't lived it, you don't get it?

I have never been without money, always worked before kids and had well paying jobs, have a high earning DH now.I cannot imagine what its like when posters say the have £5 left for the week , how hopeless it must feel.

OP, if you were trying not to bite I have obviously made my point really badly. I was responding to the posts where people were saying how rich people are by saying I think they are spendthrifts. Never in a thousand years would I say that people who are struggling are guilty of mismanaging money.

What pisses me off is the money saving advice that you have to have some money to do- like bulk buying, or going to an out of town big supermarket, or buying cheap cuts of meat that it takes loads of fuel to cook. Politicians are particularly good at that sort of advice...

I grew up in poverty and by some people's standards, am still living in it now. I think it is hard for people to understand the reality of it.
I've just had to fork out four and a half grand on 6 months rent in advance for a private let, because I don't have a guarantor and my benefits plus shit self employed salary aren't the £19.5k a year needed to not have a guarantor. Luckily my ex, DCs Dad is lending me the money. I have no idea what I would do if I didn't have that option - stay in the property with rats in the roof, probably. Poverty definitely breeds poverty and it's insanely hard to get out of, like extricating yourself from treacle. I wish more people understood that - how much mental and physical effort it takes to rise out of it. And how much time. Even after you do, the shadow of it never leaves you.

Reminds me of that classic tweet:

"If your "tips on saving money" starts with assuming I pay $5 for coffee everyday you already think I have more money than I do"

I.agree ,Op one of my favourite ,responses are we can afford to go on these luxury holidays because we prioritise holidays, I prioritise holidays too but the most we can manage is a week in a,caravan every couple of years, and I know that's luckier then some !

Bertrand I read a depressing article about how poor people always pay more for stuff. I think the example used was loo roll. I save money buying loo roll at Costco but you need a car to get there and the storage space.

Yep. The poverty premium is a real thing....

And shopping In charity shops and being excited about charity shop finds is only a thing if it’s a hobby, not a necessity.

Thing is you may not know what it's like to be in such a dire financial situation but some people don't even try.

I think some people will deliberately not give living in poverty much thought. They want to distance themselves from the possibility of that life. It's a lot easier to think it's just poor life style choices rather than someone becoming ill and being unable to work. Of course, some people are very unlikely to be ever hard up.