To think a not-insignificant proportion of MNers genuinely have no clue...

[TheTitOfTheIceberg]

...what it's like to not have much money?

This is not a TAAT but it's been prompted by a recent comment on a thread which was just the latest in a long line that make it clear that what some people take for granted is far beyond the reach of others. Which in itself is fair enough and hardly profound - this is a website with members across the whole economic spectrum, after all. But I've observed many times that there are some posters who, when the OP says "I can't afford X" seem downright disbelieving. "But it's not that expensive / it's only the equivalent of [some other luxury item which the OP is also very unlikely to be able to afford]".

Or when an OP is posting in bits - and clearly is in quite straitened circumstances - about their DP being an arse, someone will invariably post "book a night in a hotel/weekend away with your friends at a bloody spa no doubt and leave him with kids" without any apparent recognition that for some of us, a night in a hotel or a weekend away is something that has to be carefully budgeted for if it's even financially feasible at all.

It's not the disparity in incomes between posters that bothers me; there are plenty of no doubt comfortably-off MNers who post sensitively and helpfully in all kinds of situations. But there is a tranche who just seem oblivious to their financial privilege or to the fact that some of us are living hand to mouth, month on month with nothing left over after rent/mortgage, essential bills and food have been paid for, and then seem incredulous when we don't pay for, as standard, the goods or services they take for granted.

AIBU to find this both irritating, and an illuminating (sometimes bonkersly endearing) window into a world I will never inhabit, on my below-national-average salary with my disabled-and-no-longer-able-to-work DH?

Lots of people are posting from a PHONE or TABLET using BROADBAND while watching TV.

That's a fact.

@Boggles, I think that's fine so long as posters don't then go on to complain about the OP being negative about the advice offered

There are always going to be people who don’t understand your difficulties/constraints. I’m not sure it’s terribly reasonable to expect them to?

Lots of people are posting from a PHONE or TABLET using BROADBAND while watching TV. That's a fact.

Your point being?

I am guessing the point is that poverty is a very relative thing.

Poverty in the UK is about having less than, not having nothing.

It’s unreasonable to expect people to assume that posters are poor unless otherwise specified. People are just giving advice which they would consider reasonable.

I think you're being a bit obtuse here. Lots of posters make comments under the assumption that money isn't an issue even when the poster has either implied or openly stated it is a big issue. It would be fine to make a suggestion acknowledging it might be impossible for financial reasons, it's not OK to criticise and berate a poster for not taking a particular course of action when that course of action may be impossible for them.

@DHhasahobbyanditsnotcycling

I think you're a prime example of someone who has no knowledge of poverty but speaks about it as if they do. For obvious reasons the combination of ignorance and confidence is grating to people. Poverty in the UK is not just about having less fun.

yes BottleOfJameson, you tell that to people who can't afford access to hospital treatments, doctors, education, running water and food even. Who said anything about "fun".

Maybe leave your little bubble and see the greater picture why don't you try? Poverty is relative.

It's not just on MN.MN doesn't exist separately from the real world.

But yes, I do agree that a lot of people do not know/have conveniently forgotten what it's like to be struggling or scraping by or just not affluent. I was involved in a group conversation IRL recently about eating cheaply and well and people trotted out things like 'Just buy in bulk/use dried pulses and things/batch-cook and freeze stuff.' They looked quite dumbstruck when I and others pointed out that not everyone can afford the up-front cost of bulk quantities of even cheap ingredients/the energy costs involved in cooking a stew or using an oven for hours etc. Not to mention allied factors like perhaps having come from a background where cooking skills were not taught or encouraged.

Sounds like you need new mates, hardwinter

Lots of people are posting from a PHONE or TABLET using BROADBAND while watching TV. That's a fact.

Yes, they probably are. Let's look at 2 different scenarios:

TV licence £13/month
Super fast broadband £30/month
Sky TV package £40/month
Mobile phone contract £30/month

Total £1356/year

Broadband £12/month
Netflix £6/month
Mobile £10/month

Total £336/year

Difference between those two scenarios is over £1000 per year. If you can afford to spend £1400 a year on TV and internet and happy to do so, great. If you need that extra money each month to feed your family, you need to rethink your budget assuming you're not locked into various contracts.

Maybe leave your little bubble and see the greater picture why don't you try? Poverty is relative.

Exactly you're entirely ignorant about poverty experienced in the UK but instead of educating yourself you proudly declare your ignorance to the world. It is a fact, whether you have bothered to educate yourself or not, that there are people here in the UK who can't afford food and essentials or travel to medical appointments. These people aren't missing out on fun their missing out on essentials.

@DHhasahobbyanditsnotcycling

You're the one in a bubble! Could you have any less of a clue if you tried? You think no one in the UK is struggling to pay essentials (not just for extra fun and luxuries)? Or you think it doesn't matter and those people don't deserve compassion because somewhere in the world someone is worse off. You have provided the perfect caricature of what the OP was talking about though! Good grief!

BottleOfJameson

since when are hospital admission, school admission based on income?
Emergency accommodation, benefits, food bank even are based on situation, but in exactly the reverse. No one is saying the system is perfect, but hospitals do offer travel arrangement for those who need it - mine sends me all the information I don't qualify for every time I have an appointment. GPs and nurses do visit vulnerable patients. People get help to pay for their essential.

You are the ignorant one, you have clearly never left your little town and country and witnessed what poverty is.

The fact that you insist on talking about fun, which was in no one else post, makes it clear you want to twist posts and have a fight. I leave you to it my dear

DHhas, people who can't afford access to hospital treatments, doctors, education, running water and food even

So what are all the food banks in the UK for if there's no one who can't afford food? And are those teachers I've been reading about who take in food off their own bat for their pupils doing it for fun?

I don't tend to comment on threads where poverty is a factor in the OP's predicament because I haven't been in the position where every penny is critical. I've had to be careful, but that's not the same.

I understand concepts such as the poverty premium where there isn't the lump sum to access the most economical option, or storage or trapped into contracts that would cost more to cancel than maintain when circumstances have changed. But I haven't lived through the stress of that reality so it's best for me to move on and not say something unhelpful.

I agree that some people really don't grasp the concept at all.

CripsSandwiches

the whole point is that the meaning of "essentials" vary a lot for different people...

DarlingNikita
the whole existence of these food bank prove that in this country you are not left to starve, and that's temporary until your government help kick in.

Go and see what starving people look light, go and see a child dying for lack of food. It's not a pretty sight. It understand it's easier to ignore them, they are not your problem.

I think a lot of the older posters don't understand how much the economic climate has changed, hence all the witless advice about getting rid of your internet and taking in ironing, among other things.
If you bought your house more than 15 years ago and have no intention of moving, you probably have very, very little idea of how much more expensive housing has become, relative to wages.
If you got yourself a reasonable middle-management job before about 2012, or qualified in some or other professional specialist skill (dentist, accountant, plumber etc) you probably have very little idea of how insecure many jobs are nowadays - though some of the comfortable middle-managers will find out fairly soon what it's like when their employer downsizes or goes bust, or someone puts out some new software that automates that layer of jobs pretty much out of existence.
If you don't have specialist skills - or what skills you have are either out of date or completely obsolete, it's the gig economy for you. Zero hours contracts that make it several times as hard to budget properly, wages that have not increased in 10-15 years, the near-impossibility of making a living by setting yourself up as a cleaner or dog walker because all the apps/agencies/disruptors will undercut you in terms of price. Low-pay work generally means being treated as disposable; no opportunities for promotion, demands to be 'flexible' which means unpaid overtime at short notice, frequent compromises on health and safety...

And anyone with even the most basic understanding of economics is aware of why things are in such a mess: the greedy rich and the ideology of 'austerity'. The position is unsustainable as well as unethical. The only way to fix things is to transfer more money from the rich to the poor, unconditionally: UBI and higher top-rate taxes, enforced and collected.

Go and see what starving people look light, go and see a child dying for lack of food. Don't patronise me. And just because poverty is relative and a person using a food bank might not have starving children, why is it not OK to be angry about the need for them? It doesn't have to be a race to the bottom.

TBH your stance sounds pretty close to that of whichever odious twat it was who said that people only use food banks because they're there and they can. 'government help' may or may not be that much help at all, even if people do get it.

the whole point is that the meaning of "essentials" vary a lot for different people...

Food, heat, a (at least semi permanent) home, access to medical treatment (including the ability to travel there). These are all commonly described as essentials, and never described as "fun". There are people who struggle or unable to provide these for their family at times. YOu are clearly clueless.

I remember reading about the church who if you were in dire straits would inspect your home, if four of you lived there and there were five chairs to sit on they would suggest you sold one. It was called parish relief in those days.

OH Aunt had a stroke she was to be transferred to the local cottage hospital when they told her she was so distressed because it had years before been the workhouse.

Congratulations DHhasahobbyanditsnotcycling I think you've reached an all time low. I was going to say that I think actually most MNers are fairly understanding but you've proved me wrong clearly! So as long as your children are not literally dying of starvation then never to worry count yourself lucky! What a time to be alive! Never mind that some children actually become malnourished after the summer holiday if they're not actually dying of starvation it's not an issue. OK so you can't afford the train to your hospital appointment as long as you've got a clean water supply then you should shut up and stop complaining. Living in a house that isn't full of mould and damp which exacerbates your breathing issues should definitely be classified as "fun" and not essential.

UserName31456789
So as long as your children are not literally dying of starvation then never to worry count yourself lucky!

well, yes. You do realise that the reason why some of us moved to the UK was not the weather? I know, it's shocking! Even more shocking that some of us have seen a bit further than the UK.

I do love the poster who decide to call other people's experience a "race to the bottom" . Oh the insult!

And it all started when someone pointed out that if you have a tablet, internet access, a tv are not that "poor". You are just proving my point, it's all relative, like it or not.

Increasingly you can't apply for jobs without internet access and a device to connect to it. If you have to claim JSA, you need to be able to prove that you've applied for X number of jobs per week, the evidence for which will most often be confirmation emails or screenshots once the online job application forms have been submitted. If you can't provide the evidence you get sanctioned and your JSA gets stopped. That applies even if you have a particular set of skills (or, sadly, very few skills at all) best suited to a certain narrow tranche of jobs. Doesn't matter if none of those jobs are advertised in the time in which you're claiming. You have to apply for all the jobs for which you're unsuited, overqualified, underqualified, incapable or it's no money for you.

And don't think you can just use the library for the connectivity for your job applications - chances are it was closed down in the last round of cuts, or maybe the one before that.

That's the reality of 'government help' these days, and why internet access and a phone, tablet or laptop is considered an essential. Yeah, we don't live in a country where we have to bash our clothes with rocks to clean them and hope our fifth child doesn't die of starvation. I thought it was a good thing to aspire to a better standard of living, not to want to race to the bottom?

(Great post ReanimatedSGB)