Would you judge me?

[clairemcnam]

I hold my knife like a pen. I did not even think about this until MN. Would you judge me for this if you met me?

Yes I would sorry but it's my pet hate people who cannot hold cuttlery properly bad table manners are a no no. Plus keep mouth closed when eating

I'd notice almost straight away. But my step Dad was so strict about table manners so it's obviously rubbed off on me

I’ld notice but not judge particularly. I do teach dd to hold it the other way though, by explaining to her that the stretched out finger is the ‘driving finger’ to get the knife through her food.

my only concern is that, once you have used your knife and fork, you do not lay them back on the table at any point, but only on your plate. I was pretty strictly raised that getting the tablecloth or table dirty by putting your utensils down on the table Very Bad Manners, and I will judge you for that.

I've been judging my DH for that going on 30 years and it hasn't made any difference so obviously, my judginess is not worth you worrying
over. Neither is anyone else's.

I would notice within 3 seconds of you picking up a knife. I could list everyone I know that does this.

I’m a monster. ( but my kids have exemplary table manners)

I work in a quite posh industry and used to be very nervous about our social events. No one has noticed anything, even as I choke to death on sparkling water - don't worry about it. People who are so determined to judge you aren't worth bothering about.

I judge people who judge people for the way they hold a knife. Mumsnet makes me feel like the most relaxed person in the world. I never even watch the neighbours put their bins out plus I eat just with a fork.

I'd point it out cos I do it too!

I am amazed that so many judge people that do this. I have very good manners, I just don't know much about etiquette. And I think etiquette is about snobbery.

Yes, I'd probably judge. But I'd be judging your parents/upbringing, not you - iyswim.

No one has noticed anything, even as I choke to death on sparkling water - don't worry about it

I don't want to concern you but there is a difference between not noticing and not reacting. And the polite way is to not react and behave like you have not noticed. If you work in a "posh industry" then it's likely they have noticed if you hold your cutlery wrong or struggle in some way socially. Although I find ignoring someone chocking odd .

I just don't understand the definition of judging here though. I would not think less of someone. I would judgem as said, in that I'd assume they grew up and were not taught how to use their cutlery correctly, and couldn't get out of the habit as an adult, or maybe didn't even know they were doing it wrong. But I wouldn't think less of them as a person for it. Possibly due to my own shitty upbriinging.

I'm not sure everyone responding has the same definition of "judging" here. If the op means " think less of me" then I think the answers would be overwhelmingly no.

I notice, always, but don’t say anything. I probably do judge a bit tbh, as I’d think the person wasn’t taught table manners.

Not the same, but many of my sons’ friends eat like pigs at a trough - shovelling in food, head down like it’s a race, talking with their mouths full, drinking when there’s food in their mouths, zero cutlery skills. In restaurants I find it embarrassing. Why on earth have their parents allowed this to be their norm?

Yes but then I also judge people who break their bread in half and butter the whole thing in one go.

I’d be more likely to judge people who judged you over something as unimportant as this.

@TellItLikeItReallyIs me too, 100%. I've finally stopped my husband from doing it

I would notice, but I wouldn't react to it. I would think you hadn't been taught how to use cutlery properly and feel a bit sorry for you. I would never say anything though.

I'm curious though, how do you cut properly holding your knife like that?

@bluntness100 - No need to take my response quite so seriously, or try and make anyone feel more self conscious! My background means I fit quite 'naturally' into my industry - I just truly don't sit and judge people, and do not believe my colleagues do either. We all screw up sometimes e.g. not realising it was sparkling water and smiling through impending death.

The point I'm making here is that even those of us who have been nagged silly in ridiculous private schools about our etiquette and manners are so busy worrying about our own behaviour that we aren't looking too closely at the knife skills of our peers. I'd hate to think anyone would feel excluded, or worse still - was excluded - from any environment based on manners that are, ultimately, often class based.

I would certainly notice. But you would never, never know that I had noticed.

I would judge and feel guilty for judging.

no though I do judge when some holds a fork or spoon like a toddler in their fist shovelling food in their mouths.

And I think etiquette is about snobbery.

It really isn't! It’s about greasing the wheels - having rules which mean that everyone kind of understands what is happening so no one feels weird and uncomfortable. For example, if an invitation says “black tie” and you turn up in jeans and trainers, you are going to feel out-of-place and possibly embarrassed that you didn't make an effort like everyone else has.

The holding-your-knife-like-a-pen I think stemmed from inefficiency more than anything else and yes, I would judge you (and then secretly hate myself). It’s a bit like licking a knife - bad etiquette (but stemming from the place that you might cut yourself really nastily).

I don't mind it. What irritates me is people who are pretentious about etiquette and how they like to do everything properly and then hold their knife like a pen.

Corapirbright Telling people if there is a dress code makes sense. But no the rules about how you hold your knife or butter your bread are nothing to do with "having rules which mean that everyone kind of understands what is happening so no one feels weird and uncomfortable." Because a lot of people do not know these "rules". It is another type of the U and non U rules in the 60s that made life so difficult for the small number of working class people who went to Cambridge and Oxford University.

I am from a working class background and know how to hold a knife and fork. DP is exactly the same.