I've been sacked

[user910]

Two AIBU's in this I suppose.
I stopped being a SAHM almost 6 months ago and started my probation period in a new role. I loved it mainly because I loved my team and thought I'd made a few good friends in our small team.
Management got took over when I was almost 6 weeks in and I felt the atmosphere changed with the new manager and could feel her being very nit-picky with me and not warming to me.
Over the past month, there's been 3 occasions where I've ran 5 minutes late into work. I've informed them every time. I've been going through a difficult time in my personal life as I've been through a bad break up where police had to be involved with my ex becoming aggressive and I've been adjusting to being a single parent to a 2 year old- and although it's no excuse for bad punctuality, it did affect me and I felt completely unsupported at work. My performance at work stayed consistent and I was continuously learning new aspects of the job, though.
The other morning I rang to explain that my toddler was unwell and I just had to ensure he ate and felt a bit better before he went to nursery but I'd make up the missed half an hour whenever they needed me. I was completely snapped at down the phone. I asked the manager a few times during the day if she wanted to have a chat about it and she told me to wait until the end of the day. And right before my shift finished, they sacked me.

I completely understand lates are unacceptable but AIBU to think they could've at least told me in the morning so I could get home to my sick child/be a little more understanding to my circumstances and issue a final warning given that my performance at work was good?

And AIBU to be bothered that NO ONE even messaged to check I'm alright? They are people I spoke to out of work, we went on nights out, we spoke a lot about personal stuff in work, and I just got removed from the group chat and didn't receive a single message.

Please tell me I'm being unreasonable, I feel like I'm not but reading it back I'm worried I sound a bit entitled!

It's interesting how workplaces differ.

I work in retail so we have set start times (10am in our case) - however there are enough of us there that the odd lateness from people isn't really a problem. But if someone was late regularly, it wouldn't go unnoticed, and if that person was in their probation it wouldn't go down very well.

As a manager I need to hold all my staff to the same standards. If Bob is seen to be coming in late once a week (and gets away with it) why shouldn't Jane do the same thing? After all, Bob does it without consequence. And if Bob and Jane do it, what's to stop everyone else having the same attitude?

Also, I think if someone is persistently late during probation, it doesn't give off a impression. It makes me think if they can't get to work on time, what else are they going to take the piss with?

I don’t think most offices would care if you were 5 minutes late three times in one month.....if you had been there for good while and they knew your performance and output were consistent.

I’m pretty relaxed and work in a relaxed environment in regards to timing but I would be side-eyeing if a new starter started coming in late from the off (plus was it really only ‘5 mins’?).

In addition, I’d probably listen and nod and make supportive comments but I don’t really want to hear the family woes of my colleagues especially ones I barely know. You shouldn’t have been confiding in these people so early on as they may have wrongly had you pegged as one of those drama lamas who suck energy. Or they may have thought you were getting your excuses in early before more lateness, not being able to come as your kid is sick, your fighting ex in court etc.

Unfortunately for you, you painted a picture that raised potential red flags. If you’d been there a while then started being late etc I don’t think they would’ve minded so much because they know how you normally are but maybe they thought if it was like this in probation it would go downhill once you’ve passed it so they cut their losses early.

Why on earth are people saying the employer is awful ?
You are paid to be on time.
Being late during your probation period is ridiculous.
Get there on time, work hard and once you have worked the probation period negotiate flexible working if you need it.

I'm so sorry op, there probably wasn't the option given the dismissal but did you offer in these times to stay the extra 5 mins or deduct annual leave etc?

I work for the nhs and thankfully they've been lovely about occasional shift overlaps- me and DH shift workers. All lateness has to be agreed in advance and I use my annual leave to do so. This doesn't help unfortunately when lateness is unavoidable.

Moving on could you look in to term time contracts I know the nhs offer these (at trust discretion) as part of flexible working policy. Or working more in the winter when the hospitals are more stretched and less in the spring summer months.
Can you do care work ? Hospitals are always looking for Adhoc/ bank care staff. Is there anyone that can have little one over night so you can do night shifts ?

I of course realise I'm only talking about one industry of many and don't have experience of the 9-5 world but thought I'd offer an option :)

I hope your toddler is feeling better now. You're a good mummy, you'll pick yourself up from this I'm sure of it.

I haven't had a single office job where it really matters what time everyone rocks up. Turn up, do a random approximation of a work day to get job done, go home.

I guess it is more crucial in a small company where may be a team of two or three covering shifts at a 'call centre' i.e one 8am -4pm, the other 10am-6pm. If the early shift is late then there will be no one to pick up the phone until someone arrives, this happens quite often at my work place, obviously not great for business, I sometimes volunteering pick up the phone for them but I don't want to do it too often as people expect me to do it all the time - it's not my job.

3 times late during 6 months probation period I don't think it's very bad, it's more about the excuse OP gave to be honest, it's more acceptable to say you were stuck in traffic than anything about your children, it's sad but true.

If the reason you have been dismissed is lateness and that was because of childcare, then you may (and I mean only may), have a claim for indirect discrimination on the grounds of sex

Not if they treat all staff, male and female exactly the same. I don't think the OP can give anything other than anecdotal evidence that she was singled out and discriminated against.

The reality is that staff with specialist skills who cannot easily be replaced probably wouldn't have been dismissed so readily. Employers who know they can pick and choose (because the person's skills can be sourced elsewhere) may dispensed with them especially if they aren't putting in a stellar performance at probation.

It would be better to preempt the situation by negotiating a later start time if possible even by 15 mins. This could be done after the job offer has been made, stating it would help you as a working mother to shift your start time. It tests the employer's resolve to be family friendly.

Make sure you are paid your statutory notice period (or contractual if it's more). They must pay you at least 1 weeks notice, even if they sent you home after your shift (unless you were zero hours of course). Plus any accrued statutory holiday entitlement. Those are legal rights.

Funny that most employers with inflexible start times always expect flexibility where finish times are concerned, ie stay until the works done...

Sorry this happened to you OP, it sounds like the job wasn’t a good fit, and frankly like a bit of a crap place to work. At my job, being 5 minutes late would be neither here nor there, and we have flexible start times. As long as you work your hours, no one cares. There are better places out there.

Op.
That is one under your belt.
A lot of people have been sacked.
Put it down to experience.
move on,
Try hard at finding a new role. You can learn from this experience. Only 6 months in your working life.

3 times late during 6 months probation period I don't think it's very bad, it's more about the excuse OP gave to be honest, it's more acceptable to say you were stuck in traffic than anything about your children, it's sad but true.

I agree. The train being late or accident on the road tends to be accepted far more readily than anything to do with childcare.

I'd also agree it's more acceptable to blame traffic etc, but that's because it's something out with your control. Child care is usually within your control. Phoning up and saying you're going to be late because you wish to make sure your child eats before nursery is likely never going to go down well, because well the child should have ate thirty mins earlier allowing you to arrive at work on time to start your role. It smacks of being disorganised if no explanation is given as to why your child couldn't eat thirty mins earlier.

The problem as well is that this kind of casual attitude to timekeeping reflects badly on all of us primary child carers who will experience issues at some point. If everyone had the same attitude, employers would have no certainty at all about who would be there on time to take that crucial call or deal with the 9am crisis. And that’s the point.

I have two children. I have never been late or off sick. I wasn’t before kids and I’m not now. I sort my shit out so I’m not. In the odd case of an emergency you do have the ability to take time off for dependents (to ARRANGE emergency childcare, not to DO it) but otherwise you do just have to get to work. Ringing to say you want to give your child breakfast is not in the same league as ringing to say they are spiking 104 and cannot go to nursery. The latter is an emergency. The former is choosing when to work in spite of your contractual terms.

5 minutes late three times in a month shows an unhealthy disrespect for the job. I know your mind was elsewhere (and I do have sympathy, been there but still got to work on time), but communicating that to your employer through your actions was your downfall. The last incident wasn’t a childcare emergency, in that case if the baby was well enough to go to nursery (and he did go, so he was) then he was well enough to go on time. You can’t just pick and choose your hours just because you have a child. It reflects badly all of us primary childcarers when people use their childcare responsibilities as a reason to justify their inability to stick to the terms of their contract.

Unless it’s written in, flexibility is earned after you have proved yourself. Sadly the OP only proved she was an unreliable employee.

Its a probation period -the clue is in the name .
Its all very well everyone chiming in about their works flexibility but its not helping the OP who has been sacked for being late as this is not the expectation in her workplace.

Be on time, ask for a flexible contract if you need it once you are through the probation period or find a job with flexible hours.

A pp made a very astute observation - it's not about having flexible working or not; it's about being prompt and on time for whatever you have agreed.

In OPs case, she might have a 10am start and still been "only 5 mins late". The problem is the lateness, not the start time.

I have two children. I have never been late or off sick. I wasn’t before kids and I’m not now. I sort my shit out so I’m not. In the odd case of an emergency you do have the ability to take time off for dependents (to ARRANGE emergency childcare, not to DO it)
Yes, so you judge everybody else as having exactly the same circumstances as you do you?

Good for you. Not everyone has the ability to not take a day off sick for themselves or their children. When a child is ill, a nursery or childminder won't take them. What do you do then about emergency childcare then? A family member? What if there is none? How about telling OP how you manage it so that she has advice from you rather than judgement?

Attitudes like this are absolute shit. Assuming that because you are ok, everyone else must be. Being proud of never taking a day off sick was what drove my mother to having a nervous breakdown at work when she hit about 50. Not once looking after her health, sending us to school with raging temperatures and tonsillitis because she had nobody else didn't make us tough "never sick" human beings. In fact, if I'm bloody ill I take a day off work with no guilt. If my daughter is ill, and a family member cannot look after her, then I will take a day off.

People are human beings. The complete lack of empathy on this thread is a beautiful example of why she has been sacked. There IS middle ground but for some reason people don't seem to be able to manage it.

Good luck OP, I don't believe you did deserve to be sacked. I wouldn't have been able to sleep at night doing that to somebody who was in an extreme situation. But, as you can see from this thread, plenty of people have no problem with it. Definitely check with any new employers about flexible working to cover yourself. I'm so sorry a bad situation has got worse for you

Its all very well everyone chiming in about their works flexibility but its not helping the OP who has been sacked for being late as this is not the expectation in her workplace.

It may help her see that she wasn't the right fit for that workplace though. I have never worked anywhere with a that would sack you for being five minutes late whether or not it was during probation period. Many workplaces aren't like that particularly nowadays and OP needs to work in one of them.

The fact is the OP clearly failed to make a good impression. Three lates if they really were only five minutes isn't great, but not a reason to let someone go if they were otherwise a really good employee with visible potential.

I'm afraid that I think the "personal life" issues and talking about the new colleagues being friends was the problem here. In fact the OP says, "we spoke a lot about personal stuff in work" . Gulp. The OP hasn't been there long and this is a bit much.

The OP says that her "work friends" haven't been in touch. But you know what it's like: "Did you hear? Sarah's been fired!" "Really? She was really nice, but I couldn't get anything done as she was always chatting" ...

I have two children. I have never been late or off sick. I wasn’t before kids and I’m not now. I sort my shit out so I’m not.

That's luck though. Once I was stuck in a tube tunnel for 30 minutes then when we got into the next station, we got turfed off as the line was suspended. I had to get the Overground into another London station then make my way to work. In total I was an hour late. Nothing that happened was in my control. I do allow myself a 10 - 15 minutes buffer of time for delays each day but I don't arrive an hour early.

The fact is the OP clearly failed to make a good impression. Three lates if they really were only five minutes isn't great, but not a reason to let someone go if they were otherwise a really good employee with visible potential.

Three lates would be enough reason for some managers as seen on here. It does seem from what OP says that she didn't get on with her but that doesn't mean that she failed to make a good impression with anybody at the workplace. Not all managers are reasonable or good at their jobs.

The people who have never been off sick and are all smug about it...it only takes a serious illness or accident.

I’ve been signed off sick on various occasions with broken limbs, influenza and after being hospitalised with pneumonia and a couple of day case surgeries. These things happen! And no, I don’t feel guilty about off sick.

In fairness Polarbearflavour the examples you've given are hardly run-of-the-mill are they. 'Flu is nasty, it's impossible to get out of bed for a start, people can die from complications.

I don't think it's doing the OP any favours not highlighting that they need to be a bit self-reflective about what went wrong, what their employer's perspective might have been and what contingency plans they can put in place next time. There's no point being all 'it's so unfair" and hard-done-by, that doesn't achieve anything.

Are you aware of the nursery funding for some 2 year olds? Check if you can get it.

you are not being unreasonable. big hugs

I believe strongly that wherever possible flexible working for everyone should be accommodated. However, with it comes a high level of trust in your employees to not take the piss. Being late on a probation period when you should be going the extra mile to impress, is a red flag for me.