I've been sacked

[user910]

Two AIBU's in this I suppose.
I stopped being a SAHM almost 6 months ago and started my probation period in a new role. I loved it mainly because I loved my team and thought I'd made a few good friends in our small team.
Management got took over when I was almost 6 weeks in and I felt the atmosphere changed with the new manager and could feel her being very nit-picky with me and not warming to me.
Over the past month, there's been 3 occasions where I've ran 5 minutes late into work. I've informed them every time. I've been going through a difficult time in my personal life as I've been through a bad break up where police had to be involved with my ex becoming aggressive and I've been adjusting to being a single parent to a 2 year old- and although it's no excuse for bad punctuality, it did affect me and I felt completely unsupported at work. My performance at work stayed consistent and I was continuously learning new aspects of the job, though.
The other morning I rang to explain that my toddler was unwell and I just had to ensure he ate and felt a bit better before he went to nursery but I'd make up the missed half an hour whenever they needed me. I was completely snapped at down the phone. I asked the manager a few times during the day if she wanted to have a chat about it and she told me to wait until the end of the day. And right before my shift finished, they sacked me.

I completely understand lates are unacceptable but AIBU to think they could've at least told me in the morning so I could get home to my sick child/be a little more understanding to my circumstances and issue a final warning given that my performance at work was good?

And AIBU to be bothered that NO ONE even messaged to check I'm alright? They are people I spoke to out of work, we went on nights out, we spoke a lot about personal stuff in work, and I just got removed from the group chat and didn't receive a single message.

Please tell me I'm being unreasonable, I feel like I'm not but reading it back I'm worried I sound a bit entitled!

I suspect it wasn't so much the time-keeping as your manager forming the impression (whether accurate or not) that you were going to be a needy, time-consuming employee due to your personal difficulties and caring responsibilities. Many managers want to be 'bothered' as little as possible by the people they manage.

I'm sorry this happened to you - I hope you find another job soon.

My sister went back to work a few months ago after her first and they will only allow one working from home day. I just can't even fathom working for a company that is so inflexible especially where work required to be done is non shift work.

I've seen the other side of this where employees allowed to work flexibly took the complete and utter piss, which then demoralised other staff. In one case it was 3 hour lunch breaks for wedding dress fittings and "working from home" meant "drawing up a wedding list at home". Flexible working is great if employees have some self discipline and are motivated. Enough aren't that it can cause problems. In general I agree that it's better to assess productivity rather than just presenteeism but employers do have to strike a difficult balance between treating people like adults and recognising that some people aren't that responsible.

OP I hope you find something more suitable soon. I suspect your colleagues have not been told what happened and they may have been told not to contact you. Given time, you may find out more about the company and realise that you are better off elsewhere.

Sorry OP but I am sceptical that it was the same "just 5 minutes" on multiple occasions.

If it was, as pp say, you could have made it on time, even if that meant sprinting in by the skin of your teeth.

"Just 5 minutes" is probably more like 10, 15 or more, once you are finally ready to work at your desk or station or whatever. And that is noticeable.

It's a shit situation, sure, but you ultimately are at fault. Try and look on it as a lesson harshly learnt. I'm sure there is a better role out there with your name on it.

IrmaFayLear then you really don't get flexible working, in flexible workign regardless of probation period of not there is no such thing as 'being late'. You are expected to be reachable between 'expected hours' irrespective if you were on the train, coffee shop, office, home in those hours. So in OP example she wasn't in the office at 9am so what if there was something they needed from her they could still call her.

I rather think that the most flexible of workplaces are possibly the most inflexible about spending time chewing the fat with colleagues about your personal life

Nope they are not. Because work is performance managed based on your output and delivering it on time to the expected quality. In my workplace there are plenty of people who haven't mastered how to use excel, word etc. but I have. If I am given the same task to do and asked to complete it by 12 noon and it is now 9am, I can complete my work in 2 hrs compared to the other person who will take 4hrs because they haven't learnt to use the applications well enough to be efficient enough to complete the work. So if i finish my work by 11am and spend time doing whatever for an hour whats the issue - the work is done, early and to the standard required. Its called working smart. if that morning I was late by 5 mins it wouldn't have impacted on me completing the work or put a burden on my team.

Its like people wish to make their lifes harder for themselves who doesn't want flexible working. If I can only get a doctors appointment at 8.30am damn straight I take it , I wake up earlier do some work that doesn't require team support or anothers input, go to my appointment go to the office. Rather than wait 2 weeks for the perfect appointment outside of work hours or have to take annual leave. Infact on those days I'll work from home, package up all my 'non meeting' tasks to do that day so I save time commuting and often i do more hours then I would had I commuted into the office but i don't mind because I benefit from working from home. Whats an extra 30-60 mins of work cos it beats a packed tube anyday.

Belenus I agree with you but then the problem is managers who don't know how to manage by outputs.

I think we can all agree that some jobs such as teaching, care work, transport, retail etc require prompt arrival times. Many office jobs do not.

Like it or not, and whether it represents the OP or not in this specific instance, if employees can't even manage basic timekeeping while on probation, then employers will worry they have bigger issues down the line. They will want to nip it in the bud and move on.

People do mess around when they turn up

I remember one place saying work at start time not getting coffee messing around (creative sector)

not to justify it but there was 3 occasions where I was 5 minutes late.

The thing is, when you're on probation that is a lot. And citing that you need to feed your toddler and see if he's alright is really not going to cut it I'm afraid(and probably seen as quite unprofessional tbh).

Sorry to agree with some of the harsher posters, but I think YAB a little U.

It doesn’t matter what the culture around flexible working is in other workplaces- the fact is for this employer, punctuality is a dealbreaker. That’s not unreasonable, and given the OP says she works shifts, I’d guess that it was more important for her to be on time in order to relieve other staff or to ensure that service level was maintained when they left.

The recruitment process isn’t cheap for a business, especially if they’re using an agency. For your manager to decide to let you go, they’ll have weighed up the costs of backfilling your position and training a replacement against retaining a potentially unreliable probationer.

It sounds harsh but I see both sides .
I once was a supervisor and the girl below me got sacked but she basically did nothing always late , sick etc , slagged the company off . I thought she would be glad that she was let go and it was uncomfortable for me as I knew and agreed that they had to let her go . 5 minutes before the end of day they told her and she was in tears , very distressed it was awful and all the staff were supportive to her .
I've also worked somewhere that they email you if you are 1 minute late , there is no allowance it's very odd but they are fine if you have difficulty as I have on occasion with childcare so Have been a couple of minutes late I make the time up . I think there needs to be some flexibility in the work place as I'm happy to come in early/ stay late if needed but don't want to be told off if clock in 1 minute late .

No employer wants to be held to ransom by a toddler’s meals. I have 5 children and if any colleague was late for that reason I’m afraid we’d all be rolling our eyes. Sorry, OP, but you need to be a bit more together in the next job.

I was going to mention research but cyclingmad beat me too it. I saw a paper recently about how flexibility is one of the top things people under 30 look for in a job, and will take a more flexible job over one with higher pay. As the older generations retire, companies like puzzled's will have to adapt or die.

My company is about to lose me because they don't allow regular WFH. It's more important to me than all the nice things about the company.

OP, you dodged a bullet. Leave the dinosaur company to die.

I don't understand posters giving the firm a hard time. Or saying it's prehistoric. Many firms are flexible: people starting at 8.30, others at 9.30, others at 10.
But whatever time you start, promptness is expected. Lateness is not ok.
3 or lates and then child being ill for nursery, by Op, was simply not ok.
I agree with the firm.

OP, I sympathise with your situation, but I agree with those saying this isn't a surprising or really an unfair thing to happen. It does read a little as if you were primarily interested in the social/friends aspect of the job (tbf I see this quite a bit on here, that work is seen as a source of friends - where I have made friends at workplaces I see it as a fab bonus, but it really isn't in the foreground). Coming in 5 min late a few times and confiding about your difficult personal situation is probably something that is fine, because contextualisable, when you've been there longer, but from the get-go, in your probationary period, it may lead them to think 'crumbs, this one's all drama' - as unfair on you as that might be.

It hasn't worked out. It wasn't the right time and it wasn't the right place.

AnAC12UCOinanOCG thanks.

Think of all the added stress it gives to people having such ridigty where it doesn't need to be. All those times I used to be screwing at the train company because trains delayed or cancelled because of whatever reason and being late into work. Now if that happens I just turn around go home and log in and let my boss know. If I have meetings I quickly turn them into a conference call and dial into it or if its later on and needs to be face to face I will travel later in the day when the issue is resolved.

Happy days - I am not stressed because I can't get into work and being late through no fault of my own, company isn't losing out on my productivity either, I can still do my work and meetings regardless. Zero stress, better mental health for all and happier workforce. Win win situation.

Tbh I agree that inflexibly fixed start times for office jobs (where you are not expected as such to man the phones etc) are a bit antiquated. But a lot of fitting into a workplace at the beginning is about playing by the rules that are in place.

It really is sad when I see people having to take pics of the screen display at train stations and emailing them into their boss to prove their trains are late, delayed or cancelled. Sad times.

I’m not going to kick you while your down, and I’m sorry your going’s through hardship in your personal life.

The only advise I would give is that you learn from this, and in your next role you are better have better management, and have back up childcare (even I’m ) however it’s literally a dog eat dog world.

It doesn’t need to be but competition has always meant it is for the sector I’m in

One MD talked a lot about 10 to 4 fixed hours but chickened out

I do take being on time seriously however I couldn’t ring up and say I’m going to see with a meal, I’m not surprised it went down like a led balloon after other late shows

I know that’s harsh but being late in the early days is not a great idea

I haven’t read the full thread so someone may have said this already, but you have a potential claim for indirect sex discrimination if the reason they sacked you is the lateness due to childcare issues. I would contact ACAS and initiate an early conciliation process. It won’t get you the job back (although it doesn’t sound like a great place to work so maybe that’s not the end of the world), but you could potentially get some compensation. (I’m an employment lawyer btw).

Oblomov19 flexibly isn't about set times. My contract states unless working from home or remotely like client site etc. core office hours are 10am to 4pm, I can walk into the office anytime before that. 8.30am, 8.31am and even if i walk in at 10.05am noone is going to be there saying your late! It's literally a guidance to ensure that people don't start doing informal weird hours like 12noon to 8pm unless its formally agreed.

Granted not all organisations are that way and I haven't said that OP oprganisation is wrong I have just said its a blessing in disguise because the world is changing, business is changing and organisations like OP unless its a specific type of work will find they won't attract the best talent. Simple as. Argue it all you like but the facts and changes that are happening speak for themselves.

Im in my early thirties I am already start to assess what skills I need to develop if any or what industries I need to be in to ensure ill be ready for when automation significantly disrupts the world of work as it will happen in my lifetime.

What kind of a role is it did the OP say? I wonder OP dud you divulge too much about your personal life n with the bit of lateness n then saying you had to feed your son they thought 'here we go'. On the other hand we had someone like that join our team (it's not a clock in/out type role) she was all drama if it wasn't her kids it was her or her Dh being ill or something. I think at first everyone was like erk she won't last BUT she was bloody great at her job n a hard worker so she was kept on & ended up on fast track to promotion. Point being a few lates or absences didn't matter & our boss at the time was very old school!!

Well put, Belenus - and as others have said, what other employers may do or the many benefits of flexible working are irrelevant in this situation, where timekeeping's considered important

Worrying, though, to see it suggested that OP should forget a tribunal but threaten legal action anyway, in the hope of getting a pay off. Do folk really not stop to think about the impact - allowable or not - of such behaviour on the employment prospects of working mums as a group?

then the problem is managers who don't know how to manage by outputs.

They are a pain and IME also the ones whose own output is poor and who put in very long hours for little gain.