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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Invisible women's work

216 replies

smogsville · 16/05/2019 11:09

This isn't really an AIBU but I hope I'll be forgiven for posting for more traffic.

I need to show DH what gets done in running the household - largely by me - as he's getting cross about being asked to contribute to some light shared life admin.

A while ago someone drew up a comprehensive long list of everything she does over the course of the year to keep her family/ house running. Does anyone know how I would find it? It'll make my point to DH much more effectively than a massive argument!

Thanks

OP posts:
Buddytheelf85 · 16/05/2019 15:03

*Just stop doing it

I hear you, but I know from experience that bad things end up happening and everyone esp the kids will suffer as a result, if I just let things slide.*

I completely agree. On every MN thread on this kind of topic, a few posters say ‘just stop doing it then’. It’s an easy response to give but much harder to apply in the reality of family life. Sometimes it causes ME way more stress to leave something than just to do it (me, not my DH). Sometimes not doing something will cause someone else to suffer. Sometimes it’s not safe not to do something immediately. Yes there are situations where it works. But if only it were as simple as just not doing it, women wouldn’t have this problem.

Hp737 · 16/05/2019 15:05

I just made a list like this and tbh it was a little shocking. When I listed the stuff I do vs what he does, I realised basically everything on his very short list is stuff that directly benefits him/he is invested in doing (booking his own travel, cooking because he enjoys it, booking the home insurance to protect his expensive gadgets). I definitely don’t enjoy laundry for 3 people or setting up direct debts or making vet appointments but my list is as long as my arm. I know dp isn’t shit but he does view me as his manager and expects me to delegate even painfully obvious tasks or he just doesn’t do them

Coyoacan · 16/05/2019 15:05

Sorry, I am a woman and don't think that should be called women's work. I would not be doing that stuff to facilitate life for a man, why should I?

mumonthehill · 16/05/2019 15:05

Cleaning the loo!! I honestly think that DH and 2 DS think that a magic elf does it!!!

timeisnotaline · 16/05/2019 15:17

Remember that if they aren’t an integral part of the planning and allocating tasks - the mental bit, then they aren’t management. They are the junior office guy who doesn’t argue with the tasks given, jumps when you say jump, and embarrassedly runs to redo a task when pointed out it’s not up to scratch. If they step up you’re a team and they can argue back. I think if everything they do can be replaced by money eg it’s just tasks , then you’re not a team.

CheshireChat · 16/05/2019 15:20

In regards to the stop doing it- I've made it clear that if DP doesn't participate in certain stuff (prep for Easter, Christmas, days out for example) then he isn't invited/ involved either shrug.

Or if doesn't do X task that doesn't affect him, then I'll refuse to do anything task that does benefit him.

And what works is simply calling him out on shitty behaviour like expecting royal treatment when he's I'll, but having a go at me when I'm not well Hmm. Or when I pointed out we've not finished doing whatever together whilst DS is at nursery, but somehow I have loads of spare time to do these things by myself.

Crucially though, DP isn't an arsehole or unwilling so despite some things leading to spectacular rows, things got better (for both of us, I'm not claiming I'm perfect)

BaronessBomburst · 16/05/2019 15:28

Yesterday I descaled the coffee machine and the taps. DH will never even know.

Graphista · 16/05/2019 15:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Graphista · 16/05/2019 15:44

Maybe just send him these:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/mustbethistalltoride.com/2016/01/14/she-divorced-me-because-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink/amp/?client=safari

www.workingmother.com/this-comic-perfectly-explains-mental-load-working-mothers-bear#page-37

I've stolen sandgropers link too. Because what's really shocking is that there's TOO MANY threads like this.

There was also apparently a poster on here who every time she had to do something because her partner was being a lazy shit - as yours is - in "her partner's voice" said as if he was talking to her "fuck you! I don't have to do (whatever task she was doing) because it's beneath me and you don't matter so you Fucking do it!" Or something like that - you get the idea.

My ex tried this kinda crap VERY early on in our marriage. I immediately stopped doing anything for him, told him I would not be treated like a Fucking servant and if he wanted to be treated like a mature, capable adult (including sex) he'd damn well better act like one! It may not be a popular tactic but it worked.

Took about a week. He couldn't cook, was a fussy eater, was army and so needed not only uniform but gym gear clean and ready to use and boots/shoes cleaned, his mothers birthday also fell in the week it flared which went in my favour. By the Saturday he was fed up eating sandwiches while I'd had a week of lovely cooked dinners, he'd no clean rugby gear so couldn't play (too embarrassed to admit reason to team mates) so at this point he had reluctantly "got it", he put a laundry load on, apologised and said he'd make dinner that night (he could manage simple things like pasta or oven dinners but was too lazy/stubborn to do them that week)

The cherry on top was my fabulous mil calling to bollock him for not so much as calling her let alone sending a birthday card - he tried to swerve her onto me and she asked me what was happening - soon as I put her in the picture she asked to speak to him again and she went through him like a rocket! She told him if he'd tried that with her he'd have been out! That he was embarrassing himself and his parents as he wasn't raised to be lazy or entitled and that she'd be checking with me if he'd REALLY bucked his ideas up.

I really do not understand women tolerating laziness.

Frankly why you don't just say to him "quit being a lazy thoughtless piece of shit or fuck off! I am NOT your mother, your PA or servant. You are a grown ass man who knows what needs doing - bloody get on with it!"

Ssd - go on holiday without him! If he's too lazy to even book time off hell mend him! Ex once forgot to book a day off for a concert we were going to - blamed me for not reminding him and expected me to miss out! Hell no! Sold his ticket to a friend and we went without him - last time he forgot!

On another occasion we were sat watching tv the night before leaving for a holiday and he says to me "did you pack X?" At which point it became clear he had expected me to pack his suitcase for him! To which I replied "no I'm not your valet" cue him scrambling to pack with barely a clue where half his things were, bemoaning that specific things weren't washed... Not my problem. I had actually been making it very clear all that week how I was prepping MY Stuff to be packed. He didn't do that again either!

I have 3 men in my life who are/were sahd/single dads at various points, it's very interesting to see their completely different attitude compared to those men who've NEVER lived without a woman doing most of the donkey work.

I honestly agree with pps who've said similar - we won't see true equality until men actually have to do what women currently do as a regular part of life.

There are threads on here currently by posters with newborn babies who's "partners" (for lack of a more accurate description) have abandoned them and the kids in the middle of the night, are leaving the mother who is not only recovering from childbirth but also SEPSIS to do the night duties AGAINST medical advice, and various other examples of shitty behaviour in between.

The men are to blame for acting like this - but yes let's be honest - they wouldn't even DARE if they weren't fairly sure they'd get away with it!

As a group we have GOT to stop enabling such behaviour.

As parents I also see very often on here boys getting away with doing far less at home than girls do. It's bloody ridiculous!

NornIronRock - I DARE you to ask your wife if you genuinely do 50% INCLUDING the mental load and honestly report back her response - because numerous studies show that even the more "enlightened" men aren't doing anything CLOSE to their share when assessed by ergonomics experts.

There's a reason it's an oft recurring thread type - too many lazy men!

"and when I ask to offload a couple of items, he makes a bit of a hash of it or does it so slowly as to enrage me!" Deliberate passive aggressive bullshit it's called strategic incompetence. Anyone who does this past the age of 8 needs to grow the fuck up!

www.workingmother.com/this-husband-admits-to-strategic-incompetence-to-avoid-housework-and-its-infuriatingly-familiar

ManchesterBorn - agree with you too though, as long as a task is completed "good enough" then that's all that's required. When we had dd we went through a period where I was reluctant to back off but I had to learn to. Dd being in clashing patterns/colours wasn't going to kill her! With children in particular you have to let them find their own way to deal. I had a bad attack of gastro while dd was having a horrible time with teething. Ex had a bit of a panic initially but then found a way to help dd and calm her of his own (involving loud music, singing bizarre lyrics to nursery melodies and freezing celery sticks) they both survived! The only thing I did have to drum into him was yes it DOES matter how you make formula up as if you don't have the water hot enough or add too much/ not enough powder that can actually have dangerous effects. But once I had explained that to him he was more careful.

I definitely agree that division of labour has to include daily, weekly, monthly and occasional tasks.

There's a few posters have said "dh is really good" but then when listing what he does most of it isn't even stuff that must be done weekly!

These threads make me glad I'm single 😂😂

Graphista · 16/05/2019 15:45

Ignore the accidental pm I posted Blush

QuarterMileAtATime · 16/05/2019 15:46

I was so conditioned in this as the norm, that for months AFTER separation, I ordered things for my exDH online - for stag dos, for birthdays - proofread his work documents, booked his holiday activities with the children, even did some of his laundry when he ‘hadn’t had a chance’... I despair looking back. I worked 20 hours a week with two pre-school children, but he still considers me a SAHM.
I now have a wonderful DP who is a fully functioning adult. Grin
Unsurprisingly, exDH has the children 4 nights a month because any more would disrupt his wonderful career, and I still send everything they need each time...

michaelbaubles · 16/05/2019 15:57

QuarterMile, I've been separated from exH for 3 years, now divorced, and it's taken a long time for him to stop asking me to look things up/book stuff/call people for him. He lives abroad yes but also has the luxury of 40+ weeks a year living alone with no other responsibilities at all so why I with a full time job and full time care of DC should be doing his running around for him I don't know!

Oblomov19 · 16/05/2019 16:08

Op you have copied and pasted from all the posts?

So do you have a comprehensive list yet?

Please can we see it.
Others might come up with more things to add to it.

I think we should make this a MN task! And then we can add that to the list! Wink

outvoid · 16/05/2019 16:19

I got sick for a couple of days and that showed DP Grin. The house was awful by the time I recovered, we even had ants in the kitchen Shock. He thanked me and apologised for not helping enough usually...

smogsville · 16/05/2019 16:25

@Oblomov19 I've not sorted it for dupes yet just copied all the lists into a draft email for now. Will defo add it here once finalised though good idea

OP posts:
smogsville · 16/05/2019 16:29

@TheDailyCarbuncle again I take your point. Good idea for framing the discussion

OP posts:
popehilarious · 16/05/2019 16:33

I vaguely remember a post on mn a long time ago. The poster's dad either split up from the mum or was widowed, moved into a new place on his own, and kept commenting how 'dirty' his new place was compared to the old one (where his wife had done everything...) - simply didn't occur to him how much his wife had done!

user1486131602 · 16/05/2019 16:33

Nothing to add to the list other tha
Getting a divorce coz I’m sick of doing this alone!
I wish I’d had that wife list BEFORE I’d married a bloody narcissist who thought he was entitled to all this and more.

I hope yours will learn to help!

ememem84 · 16/05/2019 16:39

In our house Dh does the following:

Meal plan
Shopping
Majority of cooking.
Car insurance

I do:

Laundry (sorting dirty clothes, washing them, drying them; folding them, ironing mine where required, putting away)
Bed changing
Sweeping floors
Hoovering
Kitchen cleaning
Bathroom cleaning
Shower drain cleaning (I’ve got long thick hair so this one is all me)
Toilet cleaning
Nursery drop offs
Nursery pick ups
Nursery bag packing and unpacking on nursery days
I arrange insurance (for house)
Arrange car servicing (no mots here)
Book all travel for holidays (and pack for myself and ds)
Sort utilities
Provide tech support to our house (because I have more patience)
Birthdays - presents and cards for family (mostly mine...I let dh deal with his side for the most part)
Christmas (as above)
Easter (eggs for my family only - Dh does or doesn’t)
Fun planning - eg friends round for bbq’s etc
Ds’ swimming lessons
Mortgage overpayments
I dealt with all the legal stuff for our house purchase and apartment sale last year
I’ve sorted wills for us
My tax form (Dh does his)
Organise all amazon orders

I also work full time and am 30 weeks pregnant with dc2.

Must offload some of the lost to dh. Although I’d just have to add nagging to it. Not everything needs to be done all the time. And I space it out. But still.

smogsville · 16/05/2019 17:08

@TheDailyCarbuncle also we can get into garden, just in slightly more onerous way - nil desperadum! I fear I've accidentally painted poor DH as a baddie without giving enough context. Fundamentally he's a jolly good husband and dad but FFS the life admin fails do boil my blood. Naturally I'm perfect 😳

OP posts:
AryaStarkWolf · 16/05/2019 17:20

Meal plan - Dh
Shopping - Dh
Majority of cooking. - Both but Dh does more mid week
Car insurance - Each look after our own car
Laundry - All of us help including teen kids
Bed changing - me mostly
Sweeping floors - All of us help including teen kids
Hoovering - All of us help including teen kids
Kitchen cleaning - All of us help including teen kids
Bathroom cleaning - All of us help including teen kids
Shower drain cleaning - Me and DD because we block them haha
Toilet cleaning - All of us help including teen kids
School drop offs - Me (time suits me better)
School pick ups - Me (time suits me better)
I arrange insurance (for house) - Me
Arrange car servicing (no mots here) - We each look after our own cars
Book all travel for holidays (and pack for myself and ds) - We both have input, I probably actually book more of it, he does the car hire though and we all pack our own stuff
Sort utilities - DD
Birthdays - I do my own extended family, he does his when he remembers.
Christmas - I do more
Fun planning - Both

SunsetBunny · 16/05/2019 18:00

i find its not the DOING of things, DH is happy to pop to the shops to buy something or drop the kids somewhere but he needs to be asked or reminded.. its the THINKING and being the keeper of knowledge thats the draining part.

^^yes!

I sometimes honestly wonder how my DH manages at work, where he has responsibility and has to use his initiative.
It’s just he seems to have a total lack of ability to think about or engage with something. It’s like he goes through his life on autopilot, only ever thinking about himself and a limited amount of other stuff.

PookieDo · 16/05/2019 18:01

I have experienced this twice or more this week

I am separated from DC dad but he’s around

My DD is doing GCSE’s
I work full time in a job 30 miles away from school and home leaving 7.30am returning 6.30pm
Ex DP works about 500 meters away from school 7am-4pm

DD has called me multiple times -
I need bus money
I can’t find my key
Fret over exam
Fret over bus times
Can I have...
I need...
I’ve run out of...
can you...?

They will not ask their dad for one thing as he has essentially from day 1 of split completely abdicated himself of a single fucking child admin job. I don’t know how I haven’t killed him

SunsetBunny · 16/05/2019 18:10

Then the stuff he does do is in a really half assed way. E.g
He’ll take the bin out, but won’t ever think to clean the bin.
He cuts the grass but never trims the edges, sweeps up or cleans the mower.
Does the washing up but takes twice as long as me because he watches TV while he does it.
I could go on! .....

Grumblepants · 16/05/2019 18:11

My ex used to have a go at me and say I didn't do anything around the flat. But he would forget I worked 6 full days a week, did all the washing (at a laundrette as we didn't have a washing machine). Did all the shopping (we didn't have a car and couldn't always afford the bus, so I'd have to walk in all weathers), plus all the cooking. So there were times I didn't get to dust or Hoover and those were the only things there were noticed.
Other invisible jobs were things like cleaning the loo and shower. It would be noticed if it wasn't done but never noticed if it was.

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