Invisible women's work

[smogsville]

This isn't really an AIBU but I hope I'll be forgiven for posting for more traffic.

I need to show DH what gets done in running the household - largely by me - as he's getting cross about being asked to contribute to some light shared life admin.

A while ago someone drew up a comprehensive long list of everything she does over the course of the year to keep her family/ house running. Does anyone know how I would find it? It'll make my point to DH much more effectively than a massive argument!

Thanks

Lists might be appropriate for children and teens who are still learning the ropes, but this is a grown man. He had a life before you where the bins had to go out, and his car needed to be insured, and he managed. I'm sure he manages his tasks at work appropriately, without his boss writing them down and sticking them somewhere.

He is actively choosing not to participate, because he doesn't want to, and he doesn't care. If he'd genuinely forgotten to do something, (which we all do) his response would be "ah shit, sorry, I'll do that tonight." Not to get cross with you.

The kind of man who gets cross with you for asking him to behave like an adult and partner, is rarely the kind of man who is going to start doing things now, just because his wife has written them down for him on a list.

(Not to mention, constantly reminding him to look at the list, would have to go at the top of the list, and that would just be too irritating for words...)

EssentialHummus YES!!! And the sub-category of 'I have read this one obscure article about sleep training and have now decided it is 100% the way to go and am not going to pay any attention to your weeks (months?!) of reading around the subject and/or will be surprised when you suggest it may be a little more complicated than I think'. Grrrr!

OMG Yes!

Been married over 12 years, he was married before but his ex did everything, to the point of ironing tea towels.
Through circumstances we lived together pretty quickly but has always been good around the house, the first time he told me was 'helping me' got a reaction. Sure we have had a few rows like every couple but he does his own washing, half the school runs, and 90% of holiday childcare for dc as he is self employed. We each take responsibility for our own cars and insurance, and things in the house.

My beef comes from wanting to do anything new. He'll huff and sigh for England, I've suggested changing our mortgage a few times 'Well, we don't know if we're moving...'
'I'm seen X at the weekend, I might go?' (there was a post from me a few weeks ago about a weekend activity that was sacked off last minute)
'Thanks for asking me?! I don't really want to do that.'
'I'll go myself then.'
'You're being selfish, weekends are for the family.'
'You suggest something then.'
'I'm at work all week! Thinking about clients and work, the house and other stuff. I don' t have time for a hobby. Come the weekend I just want to relax.'
'I don't, and I'm fed up with suggesting stuff we can all do or even for one day that I can do with dc, then you moan your being left out so I suggest we do something the next day altogether, for me to be declared selfish. I don't want to stay in AGAIN.

Etc etc

Slight projection there....

Wow I am so touched by all your messages, thank you all! Have copied and pasted from all the lists and links. Sorry not to have time to reply to everyone individually, am at home with DS this arvo.

It's the mental load of managing it all. He works FT, I'm PT largely from home. DS is 4, DD 7. Like most of us here - I suspect - I'm more organised and capable of managing lots of different things simultaneously. We were recently burgled so I've asked him to handle some stuff arising from that but he's shit at following up and then gets in a bad mood when asked where we are with xyz

In his defence he does everything in the garden without reference to me and is excellent at mending and fixing around the house. Kids are very fairly shared when we're both with them and I'm invariably the one who gets the micro lie ins on weekend mornings.

So basically it's the mental load of holding all the life admin in my head and when I ask to offload a couple of items, he makes a bit of a hash of it or does it so slowly as to enrage me!

Thinking of things that kids need to learn and making sure that they actually learn them. Tying shoelaces, swimming, bike riding, memorizing their birthdays and the family address/phone number etc.

Vitamin-taking!! I know most vitamins are mostly not necessary for adults in a developed country, but oral Vitamin D really is required for most of us. I have to nag and nag to get him to take his, and it goes without saying that I have to order the kids' vitamins, get them out, get them to take them....

It’s the birthday cards that piss me off.

My relatives wouldn’t be upset if theirs cards arrived a day late and they would never say if they didn’t like them for any reason - it’s spending quality time together in each other’s company that counts.

My ILs - of course I buy and send the cards, and have a supply of stamps which I replenish but I draw the line at writing syrupy messages inside on behalf of their son. It used to be that I never quite bought the right looking cards - too jokey, not jokey enough, Mil won’t like that picture of flowers, why are you sending a nicer flower card to Aunty Dot etc etc. In fact once I had to send a grovelling apology to SIL about a for some spurious reason.

I buy a selection of cards and lay them in front of DH for him to chose. Of course him buying, and posting the cards is totally out of the question!

about a card

I was called a stupid moron by a poster when I said I didn't deal with my car ever - apparently I was bringing down the sisterhood or some other nonsense.

I've split everything with DH, but I am not dealing with his stuff AT ALL. If he needs help, of course I am there, we have a marriage, but it's completely out of my mind and my diary. The cars are one of these things, the kids clubs another.

Too often I have seen women complaining about the "mental load" but they still insist on being involved, reminding their DH and trying to take over, or complaining because he's doing things "wrong" (remember the poster who wrote half a page to criticise the way her husband took the kids away for a day, and nothing the man did was right apparently )

If you want to get rid of your mental load, share everything and don't get involved. Your husband is not a child, and he's allowed to do things his way...

There are two dead trees on our balcony. They have been there for two years.

I have asked repeatedly for him to saw them up and dispose of them. No action.

I have asked repeatedly for him to tell me where the hacksaw is so that I can saw them up and dispose of them. Only to be told "OKAYYYYY!!!! I'll dooooo it.....!" In a tone that implies that I am being a nag, merely for trying to get rid of these trees that have been sitting there for two years. If I try to nail him down and get an exact answer on WHEN he is going to do it, I will get more huffing and sighing, as if I am the one who is being difficult.

For God's sake, either get rid of the fucking things or let me get rid of them!!!

Don't forget to add the mental load. It cannot be underestimated and is hard to define but it is almost always borne by the females. There was an excellent cartoon about it somewhere

@Ghostontoast I don't do cards for his family. Got to draw the line somewhere. I would start to feel hatred if I put myself through that.

@ManchesterBorn I try to leave the car to him (we only have one) as I know fuck all about cars. Two years ago he rang me the day before our summer driving hols to France to inform me that the MOT would be running out in the middle of the fortnight we'd be away. I rang my mum's garage as I was staying there with kids and begged them to do it that afternoon. Luckily car passed without needing any bits and bobs ordered in. I mean ffs.

@Jaggypinecone yes mental load that's essentially what this post is about

Just stop doing it. OH occasionally moans he has no clean socks, that is because he has ditched them all down his side of the bed when he takes the, off and has expected me to pick them up to wash them.
Nope.
I told him several times before any washing he wants extra than what ends up in the baskets (one upstairs one downstairs, his clothes never seem to make it there) he needs to bring down and either put next to the machine or in it. It’s just laziness.
I actually don’t let him use the machine because of how and when I do different loads and the fact he doesn’t understand (apparently) how to use it properly.

He pulls the whole “I’ve been at work all day” card, but I’ve been at work and looking after dd2 and doing school runs, and still get shit done. He still does all the rubbish, dinners, baths, putting clothes away, hoovering and loading and unloading the dishwasher when needed.
I’ve made it clear from day dot household tasks are shared between the household. Even the kids put their dirty plates and cutlery in the dishwasher and their washing in the baskets.

It seems a pity that in these times of equality ,some men seem to think that they have a magic fairy in place to do all these things!.My husband washes up,hoovers (sometimes) and does the lawn /garden .He cycles to work and I am a SAHM,Children older now though.Still have to sort out some admin ,although he will help me a lot with my computer as Im not very good with it !.If you have always done it ,and his mother before him he will probably try the "what me"(sad look!) approach ,but youre better than me at it or ignore it as he has done .Really need to start as you mean to go on ,however you need to write a list ,or show him some of these!. And say what you want him to do clearly .If he huffs and puffs and doesnt do them ,then leave them and see how he reacts!dont back down!

Also - sorry, it’s hard to articulate but fucking massive - I wfh around dd (naps, evenings), and do all the household stuff, and cooking, and childcare, but when I ask him to, say, handle dinner once a week without my intervention it’s as though I’ve asked him to scale Everest... except that he still seems to trivialise my (considerable) efforts, while simultaneously in his incompetence demonstrating that I am practically Wonder Woman.

@Kokeshi123 yes the being made to feel like a nag is so wearisome.

I will reiterate that in general DH is not a bad man 😂 and he is much loved... but the list that I will put together (and then send to him to print at work as we haven't got a printer at home) from all your posts will be enormously helpful in demonstrating that when I ask to hand a task over, it's not unreasonable and moreover it should be done within a certain timeframe and to an agreed (fucking) standard. I have no idea how he manages his team at work. Perhaps he's got a split personality?!

Just stop doing it

I hear you, but I know from experience that bad things end up happening and everyone esp the kids will suffer as a result, if I just let things slide.

DH was supposed to be in charge of DD's literacy in his language (we are a bilingual household). We had discussed this. He knew he was supposed to be doing this. But was incapable of deciding what times to fit in the reading and writing work or getting DD sat down to do it. I nagged him into doing it, then stopped nagging, with an irritated sense of "You are an adult and you have SAID you are going to do this--this is your responsibility!!" A sort of stand-off developed, with me impatiently watching while he did nothing.

The end result was that DD started school without being able to read and write in the school language and was behind the other kids as a result. We had to play catchup and it was very stressful.

Now, having learned from this experience, I basically TELL him what work to do, and make him sit down and do it with her--"We need to get this page and this page done before dinner. Can you sit down and do it now, please?". It sucks, but I have tried treating him like an adult and letting him organize himself, it simply didn't work, and DD ended up suffering.

Honestly I think it's beneath you and totally humiliating to have to produce a list.

You've said to your partner a person who is supposed to love you and have your back, that you need him to step up and participate in running your joint life. And his response is to whine and moan and refuse. He would rather see you tired, stressed and annoyed than put some energy into making your joint life easier. All that says to you is that he doesn't really respect you or care about you enough to put effort into supporting you. Is that what he wants to say to you? Is that what he actually thinks/feels? Because if it is, then you have to wonder what the point of being married to him is.

Been through this. Things have improved but drastic action was taken. I immediately stopped doing his washing, anything relating to his family (that includes event planning, birthdays, cards, Christmas etc), buying extra things like food/snacks specifically for him. It’s brilliant. I got hours of life back each week. Now when he moans to his mates that he does “everything” he’s not a total liar just an 80% liar

@nornironrock good to hear from a man. So in this instance it's chasing things up to do with insurance and repairs after burglary. Asked him what was happening with x and told oh yes they were supposed to call me earlier this week. So I gently (no, really!) asked do you not put reminders in your phone (or whatever) and he testily replies 'yes' and then sighs in irritation but doesn't apologise for not having chased it up. So I end up thinking I may as well do it myself. This is always how it is with life admin for whatever reason he won't prioritise it. Not really fair on me or the kids who can't get out into the garden the normal way until doors fixed - an extra level of irritation. Not - I hasten to add - the end of the world!

@TheDailyCarbuncle you may be right but divorce is expensive. So I'll pop a list together instead. And as for things being beneath me, I've just drawn a fire engine and a police car (badly!) for DS to stop him weeping so I think I can live with that. Motherhood's a great leveller. I do take your point though.

Have we included repair/replace broken items, searching for lost things, replying to letters/emails/schools, looking for and buying new items such as children's sandals, sun hats, swim cossies each year?

I'm not saying you should divorce him. I'm saying you should ask him what sort of message he thinks he's giving you when he won't support you and do his bit and whether he actually wants to give you that sort of message.

Does he, for example, care at all about the fact that you and the children can't go in the garden because the door isn't fixed? Or is he not bothered about it?

I've also found that men are 'better placed' as a PP put it to do the tasks that don't need doing all of the time like DIY and car stuff as opposed to cleaning, tidying and cooking . Or tasks that don't involve wrangling a young kid at the same time like gardening.