Invisible women's work

[smogsville]

This isn't really an AIBU but I hope I'll be forgiven for posting for more traffic.

I need to show DH what gets done in running the household - largely by me - as he's getting cross about being asked to contribute to some light shared life admin.

A while ago someone drew up a comprehensive long list of everything she does over the course of the year to keep her family/ house running. Does anyone know how I would find it? It'll make my point to DH much more effectively than a massive argument!

Thanks

And add to mine, take 2 children to all speach therapy, paediatrician,Occupational therapy,physo,Tac meetings, ehcp meetings and manage them so they dont clash!

Whatdoyouknowwhenyouknownowt

Try doing reverse "to do" lists at the end of the day

So a Mrs Hinch ‘Ta da!’ list then? , that’s a good idea. As in 🤗 Ta da 🤗 look at everything I’ve done ✅

These lists are a good reminder.
As a bit of balance I'll put in what DH does (he works at home most days)
Bits of DIY
Empties bins without being asked and replaces bin bags
Takes out bins and recycling every week
Pre-school drop-off 3x/week
Admin for: mortgage, his bank, life insurance, his business account, internet (including sorting out problems), tv licence (I do all other bills)
Sorting out plumber etc if needed
Mows grass, weeds
Researching and buying practical one-off stuff - tools, etc
Washing up/ filling/emptying dishwasher
50% or more of getting kids up/getting them to bed, baths etc
If smallest DC wakes in the night he'll put him back down (I get him up in the morning)
Having fun with kids on weekends so I can get other stuff done/have a shower! includes thinking of fun practical things to make and do.

I'm a SAHM so obviously take on more of the mental load stuff or anything 'outside' of routine (birthdays, holidays, social stuff). I'm also happy to manage the meals (shopping, cooking etc). A while ago when I was also working we had a big discussion about mental load and he stepped up his game a bit.

What I did to point out the discrepancies was a timetable of my life and his.

Mine has two concurrent columns everyday as during a work day I was also expected to do school runs, club runs, shop, make appointments, go to all appointments, cook, remember to decide what to cook, clean, remember when cats needed flea and worm treatment, etc while his days were: work, run, bathe and occasionally go to his parents for the night. And weekends were just the same for me and completely dominated by his running schedule. We actually ended up having a separation for a while and had DD 50/50 - literally showing him and not giving an inch miraculously turned it around.

good mention by a pp of keeping an eye on the weather so you know what activities/clothes are appropriate to plan!! Why am I always the one to do this!

don’t forget the enormous effort of thinking through all the tasks to try and establish a fair level then working out how to approach your dh - not too hostile so they just don’t listen, you need to acknowledge the things they do so they don’t feel you don’t appreciate them, select s suitable time to talk, bring the discussion up again a week later, again a week later, think x isn’t working so brainstorm a different split option to suggest to your oh...

Things I do which my H doesn’t even notice.

Research extensively holiday destinations, source the cheapest flights, find affordable but smart hotels for both international and U.K. travel
Financial planning, savings pots for various items/plans
Cleaning out and purging rubbish from cupboards and drawers in the kitchen, bedrooms
Keeping on top of how the cellar is kept as it soon becomes a dumping ground for crap
Sourcing, paying via online banking and managing tradespeople such as decorators
Keeping an ongoing list of jobs needing done in the house and garden, allocating money to said jobs
Ensuring we are paying the cheapest amount for all of our bills
Arranging home, car, landlord insurance. Also MOTs, car services
Doing online and in person shopping
All gardening including painting fences, decking. Weeding, tidying up kids garden toys. Buying and planting new plants, pruning, sweeping up mess from paving
Laundry
Getting rid of kids outgrown clothes and ensuring they have new ones
Kids homework, attendance at events and any other requests from school

I could go on!

I'm not sure a list will help, but I only recently, now the kids are too old for it to matter really and we have an au pair, realised what expectation I should have set for DH. I wish I had told him that when he gets in from work, his first thing to say after 'Hello' should be 'What can I do to help?' Because there will always be things to do and a lot of guys simply won't see it if it's not presented to them, and having them ask (hey, maybe it future it won't just be the male partner!) takes the fear of seeming 'nagging' or demanding off the other parent.

I think otherwise, men can tend to come in from work, slump on the sofa and go 'Oh God, I'm knackered, I just want to collapse tonight', which automatically makes their partners feel awkward about asking for help.

I will be teaching my kids to use/ask for 'How can I help' if they have families!

BTW, tho, I think my main piece of invisible wifework is booking childcare for school holidays. DH barely has any awareness of when they are and it is such a juggle booking things/getting parents involved.

God, just the research/head space! DD is a toddler. I’ll spend hours reading into aspects of birth, early sleep patterns, clothes, weaning, bilingualism, potty training, swimming, whatever. DH will come along and say, “Maybe it’s time to potty train?” and then stare at me. YOU want to do it, you bloody look it up, figure out what needs doing and when, and crack on matey.

Read “I don’t know how she does it” by Allison Pearson there’s a bit in the book about her friend who died and wrote pages and pages of info for the family

DH is pretty good (as in, does all food shopping and planning, insurance, car admin and quite a bit of the driving round in circles) but has not yet lived down having to ask me what time school started in order to take a child there.

It was our third child. In Year 4. So about 10 years by then of watching me run round like a mad thing to get out the door for 8:30, and he'd never registered it.

I don't count anything related to pets. Left to himself, DH wouldn't have any.

Sounds like a familiar argument in our house! I wouldn't know where to start making a list to be honest, there is so much. Many of which goes unnoticed until it's not done. I constantly ask for help but dh always asks for a list of what needs doing. Thanks won't because I don't want to add list writing for dh to the list of everything else I need to do! You have my sympathies op, I have no idea what the solution is op.

Why does it happen though? My eldest is 5 now so I know loads of families with dc around that age, lots of different working permeations with SAHMs, SAHDs, part time, full time, condensed hours, weekend work etc and it's pretty much always the mother who does all of this stuff, even if they work more hours .

"I won't" not thanks!

If you keep calling it "women's work" you'll be the one expected to do it. Small changes first and all that.

I had a major operation earlier in the year, and I am a SAHM. I probably spent about a month before the op getting everything prepped so that if I died, the household wouldnt fall apart for at least a month. It was illuminating seeing how many instructions sheets I had to write for so many different tasks, even down to how to get a same day appointment at the GP for the DC. Its not just a matter of writing a phone number on a list, I have worked out when to call and who to ask for the appointment to be with etc etc. Its all this knowledge generated by having done it for years that means it is so difficult to pass over the complete work load.

So in my experience, if you are trying to hand over household jobs that you have been doing for a while (but want another household member to take on) write an instructions list / work flow plan and put it in a folder in the kitchen. Then there cant be any reason why someone else cant take it over properly without continually referring back to you with follow up questions, or saying "well there is no point because you know how to do it better than me". You just say - look in the folder, everything I know is written down there.

I find this interesting. I'm going back to work after mat leave soon and DH will be primary carer. I'll soon find out what he remembers and what he doesn't!

At the moment we generally share the manual stuff but I definitely have more of the mental load, as pp have said. We've just moved so lots to sort out.

He does:
His washing
Load dishwasher
TV license
Water bill
Phone/Internet
Cooking
Vacuuming
Cleaning kitchen
DIY

I do:
Bills (Mortgage, Council tax, Gas & electric)
My washing
Cleaning bathroom
Dusting
Putting bins out
Feeding DS
Remembering birthdays
Buying presents/cards
Sending out change of address cards
Buying all baby stuff
Putting up/taking down Christmas decorations
Ordering new food caddy
Ordering replacement recycle bin
Filling in doctor/dentist registration forms
Remembering where things are around the house
Sorting unused furniture collection
Collapsing cardboard boxes
Reminding DH what food we need
Booking/paying for holiday plus activities on holiday and insurance
Sorting house and car insurance
Liaising with builder
Applying for building regs
Knowing when/where baby groups are
Remembering things like to buy more dental floss or shower gel
Buying and putting up curtains
Full-time job (soon)

We both do:
Baby clothes/nappies washing
Looking after DS (me more than him atm)
Food shopping (me more than him atm)
Washing bedclothes

I think I hit a new low last week when I gave our DD $5 for the Mother’s Day stall at primary school (cos I knew DH would forget/not have cash/etc). Then I gave her two more $5 notes for the stall ladies to use when other kids turned up without money. Cos their dads are just a fucking useless at this ONE SMALL THING.

On the bright side, two other mums had a nice mother’s day due to my ‘wife work’, and I can report that my DD has learnt well at my knee and bought a small pot plant and a tea mug with ‘My mum is marvellous’ written on. She has smarts, multitasking skills and empathy. And so the cycle continues...

@InDubiousBattle I think it starts with Mat leave. Women end up doing most housework and child-related work during this time and then it just carries on, even when / if they go back to work. This is why compulsory Pat leave would really help to redress the balance.

It seems to me that this type of thread is a very often recurring one "My husband doesn't do x,y,z" or "My husband is useless because x,y,z"

As one of the husbands, I do get that there are things my wife takes care of, but there are things I take care of. She is better (or better placed) than me for some stuff, and I am better (or better placed) than her for other stuff. If she needs me to do something, she lets me know. If I need her to do something, I let her know.

It's not exactly rocket science. Am I missing something?

Surely the list is different for everybody though?

I wouldn’t say cleaning, cooking, shopping, washing are invisible things. The stuff I would count is the stuff DH doesn’t know about, or it doesn’t occur to him needs doing. 90% of that for us is anything to do with school, after school club or routine medical appointments. Or, he might book a holiday but it not occur to him that parking and money and insurance and packing needs to be considered in plenty time.

Things like birthday gifts for that party the kids are off to, organising childcare for holidays etc. It’s the stuff that generally fell to me during maternity leave and toddler years as I worked part time and it just went on from there.

Also, much of it comes up because I do morning drop off whilst he’s at work and I get “mummy can you look at this” which might mean I need to call one of her doctors etc.

If I were looking at having to list out really obvious things like cooking and cleaning, I’d be taking stock of the whole relationship.

My husband is really good around the house and for example does nearly all the dishwasher loading and unloading and regularly cleans the sink as well as doing his own ironing. And putting veg/fruit peelings in the compost bin is his job as I don't like the flying things coming at me when I open it :)

All our bills are on DD so no admin there.

The admin that I do do that he just doesn't see is around school stuff, Topping up canteen card, filling in forms, generally attending meetings although sometimes he goes if I am working, that sort of thing.

He writes birthday/Christmas cards for his own family, that is not my job. He does not write birthday cards for my family because that is my job. However, when his nephew invited us to his wedding it was my job to reply to the invitation, apparently ;)

Class nights out for networking/keeping in the loop purposes

We have a Facebook group for that. Come on, that's a jolly, not a job.

If she needs me to do something, she lets me know. If I need her to do something, I let her know.

How often are you having to let her know?

DH and I work to our strengths, e.g I don’t cut grass, he doesn’t clean bathrooms. It is rare he needs me to do something to facilitate him, it is far more often he needs to pick up a household thing to take the load off me. Mostly I don’t have to ask, which is good because if I did, it would be really wearing.

I find that having a DC with SEN adds hugely to my mental load. On top of things already listed, I also have to:

• Fill in application for DLA (which involves sending copies of medical reports etc, so these need to be filed efficiently in the first place)
• Fill in application for Carer's allowance
• Fill in application for tax credits
• Make & attend termly reviews at school
• Make & attend any medical appointments

I am also, at the moment the only parent available to attend DCs school events. We have 3 DC at primary school, so an average of 2/3 things per term, per child. At Christmas & summer this more than doubles. Then stuff for Beavers, Cubs & Scouts. If nobody is there, it causes meltdown with autistic DS2, so that is not an option. I also have to remember to film/photograph events. Huge mental load. All DH has to do is remember that it took place & ask how it went

I'd love to hear some sanity about this from someone in a same sex marriage.