To think husband could be a bit more husbandly?

[ilovemycatmorethanyou]

This is a little lighthearted so please don’t let’s go all LTB 😂

Name changed as it could be a bit outing.

DH and I went out last night for a meal and drinks with friends, we don’t go out very often, maybe once a month.

When we arrived he bought me a drink and we sat down at the table. We weren’t in a round with anyone and the other girls husbands were going up to the bar to buy their drinks. My glass had been empty for a while so I got up to buy myself a drink, asked if he wanted one but he didn’t.

We have independent finances, always have had.

AIBU to wonder why I’m the only female getting up to buy her own drink? I felt a bit peeved by it.

Am I being a princess?

Do you think, ilovemycat that if you had waited another 10 minutes, when your dh needed a drink himself, that he would have gone to the bar to ask for a drink for himself without asking if you would like him to get you another one?

Constanza -so you do agree some distinctions can be made then?

If there had never been any concept of “ladies first”, which sex do you think wouid come off worst in day to day life? Which sex always had the natural advantage in terms of getting through crowds, onto public transport - all sorts of things.

Or to take another tack with this - When you go out on an evening with your DH , regardless of who gets the drinks, do you just wear a shirt, jeans and flat shoes? Every time?

There are some posters on here (no idea if you would agree with them), who would say that wearing a pair of high-heeled shoes is mindlessly conforming to the patriarchy. You must have seen those threads. And, of course, they would be right and there’s no denying that. I mean, can you imagine a world where men are routinely walking around on 3-4 inch spikes and nobody bats an eyelid?

So yes, we are all conditioned and well we know it. But have you never just looked at a pair of shoes and just thought, “Yes women’s fashions are crazy and we all know why... yes it’s the history of patriarchy.,,it’s so insidious we don’t even know we’re conforming to it ...etc etc...,yes all of this, but do you know what? I just really love those shoes and I’m buying them.”

So that’s just an extension of the same mindset really. How far do you tolerate gendered behaviour patterns and where do you draw the line. It’s like s spectrum and people naturally gravitate to different positions along that spectrum. There’s no “should” about it.

Maybe his mistake was not to buy you another drink only 10 minutes after you'd said you were getting yourself a drink?

And I am 100% for gender equality. What is silly is blowing the fact that the op wanted a little cherishing from her dp- not men in society in general- on a night out.

I'll blow some minds here but about once a month, generally right before my period, which I have because I'm a woman, I get far more sensitive and like to be looked after and run around after a bit. By my dh. Not at work, not in the supermarket, not on public transport, by my chosen life partner. Because of hormones and biology. You are all super women and I bow down to you if you never have those hormonal fluctuations, as I certainly do. As I did during my first three months of pregnancy. Again, feelings of wanted to be looked after by dh, no one else. I was not offended by piano legs or demanding random strangers held doors open for me or give up seats. I didn't feel the need to give up my career or freedom or the vote, just was a little bit more sensitive.

Should my dh ever be feeling a little more sensitive for any reason of course I would make a special effort to be nice to him and make him feel cherished and valued.

Maxi, you've proved my point beautifully, thank you! The OP was not extreme - extreme would have been if she had said she didn't hunk women should be in bars consuming alcohol in the same room as men. Your retorts on the other hand are extreme in the implication that this is a serious issue that is going to topple the equal rights movement. If you want serious discussions let's talk about the gender pay gap and under representation of women at board level, not op's feeling being a bit hurt... By her DP!!

If you post a thread on mn you can't really get pissed off at people replying who disagree with you. The OP asked aibu, some people think she was bu. That's literally the point of mn.

There have been plenty of posters replying repeatedly in support of OP, Bondi has as much right to reply as them.

mojitoclock - I think shoes too uncomfortable to walk to the bar to buy a drink in are shoes too far along the line of silliness for me. However, I think you do make a good point about mindsets. I think the OP's scenario has bugger all to do with "kindness" though (unless on the night concerned, the OP's dh noticed his dw was wearing such impractical clothing and footwear that a trip to the bar for a drink could be problematic ). It's only unkind not to alwya be the one to buy your oh a drink if you have the same mindset - and we are all apparently agreed it is perfectly OK not to have that particular mindset.

kyles if the OP had said, I was feeling very sensitive/vunerable/had a broken ankle on this day and explained this to my DH, I asked him to go to the bar but he refused. Then fair cop the DH was being a dick.

The OP said "I needed a drink and my DH didnt, I expected him to go to the bar but didn't tell him or ask him. I expected him to go to the bar because all the other men were"

One is being kind, the other is sexism. Your not 100% for gendered equality if you can't see the sexism here.

OP didn't expect him to, her feelings were a bit hurt was all.

This is funny. We both earn but joint finances. When I out with Dh he always goes to the bar it's a pattern we fell into! sometimes he'll joke & say must be your turn & I'll go up no bother. He prob drinks faster than me so usually finished first maybe that's why?? Have to say it's the same with all the other couples I can think of when we out! Have we stepped back in time?!! Who cares, whatever works- I am not gonna start demanding to go to the bar now just to make a point!

Of course there are differences mojito ....my point is that those differences are unecessary and we shouldn't be promoting them.

The concept of a man buying all the drinks is outdated.....it's no longer relevant. Women no longer need men to do this for them. However, some people may choose to still behave like this but instead of saying this is how men and women should behave people need to own their individual decision.

Issues around appearances are very complex. Of course much of what we know of male/female fashion is rooted in misogyny but the difference is that women are no longer required to dress in particular way. It's not necessary for women to exclusively wear skirts, dresses, make up and heels and that shouldn't be expected behaviour.....that is where the problem lies. In stereotypical, expected behaviour.

My DH buys me drinks when we're out but he does that because he's kind and caring not because he's a man. I wear dresses, heels and make up because I like those things not because he expects me to ....I also (like today) wear very casual clothes . It is entirely my preference and my decision. I don't do it because it's expected of me.

We all have individual agency and nobody is suggesting we lose that. It's just that people have a problem with the concept of gendered behaviours as they just necessary or relevant any more.

kyle but why were here feelings hurt? There was no logical reason for her DH to go to the bar. The only reason was he was a man. So OP was unreasonable to have her feelings hurt by her DH not going to the bar for her, when he had no reason to go to the bar other than sexism

Goodness me, is it inconceivable to some of you that OP's post was a 'snapshot in time'? A specific event? She's already said that she goes up to the bar. What of it?

Some of the posts on this thread are just goady and insulting for the sake of it and now, because it's being questioned there's talk of respect. Quite. Start here. Stop calling posters names and making insinuations about children they may or may not have. Just stop it.

I don't know what the purpose of it all is. If it's such an 'important' issue then how is insulting posters going to assist that? There are some extremely erudite posters on MN who have skills on the subject without taking it to a personal and spiteful level. I wish they were on the thread.

The thing is, if there is a specific reason in your relationship the DH goes to the bar, you are pregnant, have severe social anxiety, you aee only 4' tall and cant be seen, your DH is wild about going to the bar whatever then okay fair enough.

But that's nothing to do with the DH being a man, and is therefore pretty irrelevant to the Ops situation. Where the DH doesn't feel he has to go to the bar for OP, because the only reason she wants him to go to the bar is because he's a man.

Blue no I could see the same feelings being hurt in a same sex relationship. Feelings are sometimes irrational. Well, mine are anyway. It's ok to be vulnerable and have hurt feelings sometimes for no reason within the confines of an interdependent relationship.

Forget husbandly isn't it just manners? He should have looked after you and got you a drink.

Your retorts on the other hand are extreme in the implication that this is a serious issue that is going to topple the equal rights movement.

I think you’re confusing me with some other posters. I haven’t made any such comments at all. Others have, but not me. You’re welcome to re read all my posts to confirm this.

Maxi, you've proved my point beautifully, thank you! The OP was not extreme

I didn’t mention extreme or extremism. (That was you) Nor did I suggest OP was extreme. Because I don’t think she was.

kyle but if your feelings were hurt irrationally you would check yourself, because you would be BU. It's unreasonable to be upset with your DH about something irrational.

The OP said "aibu to wonder why I was the only female going to the bar. I was peeved by it" she WBU, and no it's not going to be the same in a same sex relationship, because she felt her husband should go to the bar because she was a man and she was a woman.

Constanza - but if you don’t mind me saying, can’t you see how your post is contradicting itself?

No women are not required to dress in a certain way anymore (even though so much is internalised, but leaving that aside for a moment).

In other words, times have changed and as such, the context for the decisions we make has changed too. This, for me, is key.

So there was a time women were more or less forced to wear long dresses and corsets. Not now. If a woman decided to step out in that kind of attire, that would be now be a choice. A different decision because of a different context.

The same can be said for all aspects of female fashions. On the FWB boards it’s what I think they refer to as “performing femininity.” As I said, there is a spectrum for this and women gravitate to different points on this spectrum. So while some women may enjoy dressing up in heels and make-up, others will shun this.

Again the key point here is that these days we have a choice.

But it’s exsctly the same with gendered behaviours. Some women will enjoy or feel naturally inclined towards “performing feminine behaviours” far more than others and these behaviours will manifest in their interactions with men - eg. they will enjoy /expect doors opened, man to pay the bill or whatever. They will tend to gravitate towards men who fulfill these behaviours for them. On the other end if the spectrum, there will be women who shun the whole notion of “performing feminine behaviours” so they will be drawn to other types of men accordingly.

Again the key point here, is that people (women and men) are making a choice. Just like with the shoes.

To quote the ubiquitous MN saying -“choices are never made in a vacuum”. Yes we know that, of course. But within the non-vacuum that is life, everyone has to negotiate relationships according to how they feel and just be honest about that - and nobody should feel mocked for their own instinctive preferences.

No husband should be considered inadequate or unkind for not noticing his dw wanted him to buy her another drink before he'd even had a chance to finish his own, either, though. So the OP was BU to be peeved.

mojito can't you see that you have just repeated what I've said?

I’m still not sure whether I was unreasonable or not but it’s interesting to see the differing views, that’s why I asked. I’m not a lilly livered “laidee” who obeys her husband’s every word but I do like to be looked after by him, I say this even though I know there’ll be mumsnet outrage at such an opinion. We have blue and pink jobs, he cuts the grass and puts out the rubbish, etc, I usually make dinner and do the washing and we’re not 1950’s throwbacks, just a ordinary couple splitting the jobs.

Constanza - you said gendered fashion is a choice. I’m agreeing. I’m also saying gendered behaviour is a choice. Context is key.

Of course gendered behaviour is a choice but choices are influenced by a whole range of things. Unconscious bias is deeply ingrained but it's important to acknowledge these and act accordingly.

If people are happy in gender typical roles then obviously that's okay but it's not okay to make broad generalisations about how men and women should behave.

Now I think you're just yanking the chain.pink and blue jobs. Piss take surely

But Constanza - gendered clothing is as equally influenced by unconscious bias. How we dress is a behaviour.

So where you would say to me that choosing certain gender roles means that I am reinforcing patriarchal structures, perhaps a more “radical” or literal feminist could equally say to you that your choice to wear heels is also reinfircing patriarchal structures.

And part of you will probably agree with her (theoretically), But equally you are honest with yourself and know that still want to make that choice to dress in a more feminine way.

Just as you would no doubt be irritated by someone telling you that you “should” be wearing more gender-neutral clothing; I get irritated by other women telling me that I “should” want to conform to more gender- neutral behaviour or relate to men in a particular way. It’s exactly the same thing.