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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think friends child should be out of nappies

221 replies

FreshAprilStart · 07/05/2019 19:20

Context. My friend is brilliant. Such a great mum, does so much with her children and very loving and kind. But. She gets very anxious about them and managing change.

When asked, I've always been reassuring about things like co-sleeping and so on and fussy eating and saying it all falls into place in time which it usually does.

The thing is that her DD is quite tall for her age and nearly 4 now but is still in nappies. No issues or special needs. The nursery has even said they want to get her out of nappies soon as it's now becoming noticed by other kids. My friend just ignores it all.

I've been as supportive as I can, soothing and encouraging but she seems stuck in the 'it's fine at this age' and won't tackle it. I'm getting more and more frustrated when she seeks more assurances. Her DD is adorable but I'm beginning to think she'll be in nappies at school at this rate.

Would you say something or stay out of it?

OP posts:
Ohtherewearethen · 08/05/2019 07:43

There are lots of angry people on here accusing others of all sorts of wicked things. Long rants about SN and ignorance etc which, quite frankly, have nothing to do with the OP.
The original post reads as, 'My friend has a nearly four year old child who is still in nappies. She's bright and articulate and can indicate when she has dirtied her nappy. My friend is anxious about potty training and often asks me to reassure her that it is ok that she hasn't begun the process yet but I disagree with her. Any advice as to what I could say to her to be supportive?'
Others, I feel, have misinterpreted the OP's intentions.
OP, if I were you I think I'd just gently suggest she gives it a go. Make a joke of it - 'I'll be here with chocolates/cake/wine for moral support' and reassure her that it can't hurt to try, what's the worst that could happen?

ArgyMargy · 08/05/2019 07:43

Jeeez will no one think of the landfill?

Original poster
FreshAprilStart · 08/05/2019 07:48

Wow, thanks for all the replies and advice.

Really mixed responses.

I absolutely agree that I'm not a trained professional so don't know if there is an undiagnosed issue, but I highly doubt it. It's more about my friend finding it difficult to tackle change with her DD and facing the upset this might cause from a tantrum.

What jumped out to me was someone mentioned the environmental impact side of this, of continuing in disposable nappies. That's something my friend would definitely respond to so I'm going to gently weave that in and hope it kickstarts some sort of attempt. There has been no attempt so far.

We're in Scotland so the DD isn't going to school until next year so a whole summer and beyond to try and tackle it, not that a Scottish summer is that long.

OP posts:
Original poster
FreshAprilStart · 08/05/2019 07:49

ArgyMary, cross post. That's exactly the point I think will push the change.

OP posts:
ArgyMargy · 08/05/2019 07:54

My post was not specifically about your friend; more about the attitude that wearing disposable nappies until age 4 or 5 is fine. If you think age 2 was until recently standard for potty training, we've literally doubled the landfill, which was already billions of tonnes of non-degradable crap. And then people say it's because the disposables are too good!

coffeeforone · 08/05/2019 08:08

I always thought age 2-3 was pretty standard. After 3rd Birthday is getting late. At almost 4 it's very late for a child who has no other issues and can communicate well. I'm also surprised the nursery haven't pushed more.

I would be honest with my friend and tell her it's not fine, the environment point sounds like a very valid way to encourage it.

Oblomov19 · 08/05/2019 08:11

Apart from SEN, a child of 4, starting school in September, should be out of nappies by now.

But if she doesn't want to hear it, what can you do?

itwasalovelydreamwhileitlasted · 08/05/2019 08:12

If she asks for your opinion/reassurance I would be honest? Tell her that it is isn't the nursery's job or the school to do it

I would maybe offer your help over a weekend to do it? I did my DD at 3 and I was getting anxious that that was quite old compared to her peers. DD wasn't interested until I said one morning no more nappies and then over a bank holiday weekend by the Tuesday she was using the toilet - if there is no SEN there is really no excuse

Lofari · 08/05/2019 08:13

Other side of the debate here. My son is almost 4, non verbal ASD, global delay, and muscular dystrophy to boot. He has absolutely no inkling when he needs the loo so i will be using nappies with him for a long time to come i fear. .
He is very tall for his age, and by christ do people judge.
Its awful.
My other 2, no SEN, were both sorted by age 2 and a half.

Lamazedragon · 08/05/2019 08:47

My DD was potty trained at 2 years and got the hang of it in a few days, but she developed an awful problem with withholding her poo. I'll spare you the details but she needed pull ups until she was 4 and a half. She finally overcame it the August before reception year. I see the OP states there are no issues with the child, just giving an example of a case where nappies were needed for longer.

Summer is a good time to potty train and if there are no issues, I am imagining the child will be so ready that she'll crack it in a few days. Maybe some gentle encouragement for your anxious friend.

Namestheyareachangin · 08/05/2019 08:47

Why are you so overinvested in how your friend manages her child's potty training? Does the child seem unhappy or abused or neglected? This idea about you slyly 'coming at it from an angle' that will 'push the change' is so... simultaneously sinister and patronising. I can't quite get my head around it.

If she is your actual friend, own your discomfort and have an honest conversation with her; or accept that as long as the child is not suffering (in which case you have the same duty anybody does to report to Social Services), it is, truly, really, NONE of your business and stop trying to meddle.

woollyheart · 08/05/2019 08:56

Do you think your friend enjoys her child being a baby/toddler and is encouraging her to stay at this stage?

If she asks for reassurance, it might be a good idea to ask what approach to toilet training she has tried. Then you would find out whether she has tried and failed, or whether she hasn't tried at all and doesn't know how to do it.

It's also worth mentioning the landfill aspect, and the burden she is putting on future teachers if this child is capable of being nappy trained and she is preventing it.

Bettythedevil · 08/05/2019 09:44

@Lamazedragon exact same situation with my DC. There seem to be quite a few of us on here. ‘No excuse apart from SEN’ is just not true. Until you have a poo withholder you have no idea!

graziemille1 · 08/05/2019 09:59

Really Mumsnet?

My comment deleted because I dare to say that a healthy 4 year old with no developmental problems should be well out of nappies? It IS neglectful of parents of healthy 4 year old with no developmental needs to not train their children!!

My own health visitor said this to me. She despaired that children were turning up to school without being trained to the extent that the 54 month review (this is in Scotland) has to ensure that children are trained. In days gone by this would be a given that children were out of nappies by this stage. She also went on to say that the health visitors receive an alarming amount of calls round about June/July before school starts in Augusts from parents who haven’t bothered to train their children and are in a panic.

Why did you delete my comment mumsnet? Because someone was offended by a view shared by health professionals? Get a grip.

Allfednonedead · 08/05/2019 10:04

Did no one else pick up that the DD is asking when she needs to be changed? That makes it sound like she’s more than ready!
I think this sounds like your friend may have issues with transitions, and a good friend would be prepared to push gently, especially as it is in the child’s interest.
I’m not judging her at all - trouble with change can be a real problem in moving one’s life on and it’s not done out of laziness or ignorance - but some non-judgemental support and impetus could be all she needs to get this sorted.
And the advantage of potty-training late is that it should go very quickly!

HolesinTheSoles · 08/05/2019 10:04

Luckily both of mine were ready to potty train before 2,5 but I definitely know a few others who were quite late for various reasons (one was undiagnosed SEN). In those cases reuseable nappies are definitely a better option as they'll also help the child when they are ready to train.

Greencustard · 08/05/2019 10:54

(It's only just ocurred to me too, but actually, it's a little 'interesting' that all the blame and responsibility has been placed at the door of the mum)

Because OP was talking to the childs mum. It was the Mum looking for reassurance from OP. It's not 'interesting' at all, it's boring and tedious that you tried to be offended and make this into something it's not.

Greencustard · 08/05/2019 11:03

Why are you so overinvested in how your friend manages her child's potty training? Does the child seem unhappy or abused or neglected? This idea about you slyly 'coming at it from an angle' that will 'push the change' is so... simultaneously sinister and patronising

I can't get my head round the fact you can't read and understand the OP and then make up blatant lies. Her friend is the one who broached the subject with OP.

x2boys · 08/05/2019 11:07

People keep saying that the numbers of children turning up at school in nappies has increased well.of course it has untill.a few years ago schools were allowed to discriminate against children who were not toilet trained for whatever reason as I keep.saying it is no fun changing an older child,s nappies why people think parents would deliberately keep their child in nappies for no good reason is beyond me !

bigKiteFlying · 08/05/2019 11:08

My older two were nightmares to toilet train but were in school when they were young 4 so I had to try summer before they started - they kind of got it but several accidents in school over the years.

My youngest announced she was using toilet at around 2 had week of accidents and that was it.

I think that was the children not anything we did.

Children do vary – but I’m surprised the girl hasn’t want to try herself by 4 and that some attempt hasn’t been made.

I don’t think there’s much you can say OP – though perhaps gently suggest potties around house, or toilets seats that fit over and stool – youngest liked that and some children books – few out there.

BollocksToBrexit · 08/05/2019 11:22

My comment deleted because I dare to say that a healthy 4 year old with no developmental problems should be well out of nappies? It IS neglectful of parents of healthy 4 year old with no developmental needs to not train their children!!

Approximately 10-15% of autistic children are spotted before they turn 4. The other 85-90% are seen as healthy 4 year olds with no developmental needs. So your comment was declaring 90% of parents with autistic children as neglectful. That's pretty shitty even by MN standards.

MyBlueMoonbeam · 08/05/2019 11:33

Approximately 10-15% of autistic children are spotted before they turn 4. The other 85-90% are seen as healthy 4 year olds with no developmental needs. So your comment was declaring 90% of parents with autistic children as neglectful. That's pretty shitty even by MN standards.

This 100%

Namestheyareachangin · 08/05/2019 11:37

@Greencustard

Her friend is the one who broached the subject with OP

So why doesn't she just bloody tell her what she thinks instead of stewing over it, trying to get approbation for her secret disapproval from strangers on the internet, and plotting roundabout ways to 'push' a change in her friend's parenting?

Funny kind of friend you can't just talk to, but don't mind criticising to the world at large...

Namestheyareachangin · 08/05/2019 11:39

I also think it is SO RIDICULOUS to link the girl's size and verbal ability to her readiness for potty training. Babies with no speech can potty train (large or small). It's a developmental thing and not determined by size or verbal ability. Surely this is standard knowledge?

mrsjoyfulprizeforraffiawork · 08/05/2019 11:43

I think that a lot of children weren't trained exactly, they were toileted and the incentive to do so was cutting down on washing when it was more difficult and harder work.
We were 4 children and all definitely potty trained by 18 months. My mother started putting us on potties as soon as we were big enough to be sat on them (whilst being held by her). My little brother was a late baby so I was able, as a late teenager, to witness firsthand her doing this with him. She was always very keen to get us all drinking out of cups (no bottles ever entered the house - she did breastfeed us all) and potty trained ASAP. Three of us were babies up in the 1950s and my little brother in the 1970s.

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