To think friends child should be out of nappies

[FreshAprilStart]

Context. My friend is brilliant. Such a great mum, does so much with her children and very loving and kind. But. She gets very anxious about them and managing change.

When asked, I've always been reassuring about things like co-sleeping and so on and fussy eating and saying it all falls into place in time which it usually does.

The thing is that her DD is quite tall for her age and nearly 4 now but is still in nappies. No issues or special needs. The nursery has even said they want to get her out of nappies soon as it's now becoming noticed by other kids. My friend just ignores it all.

I've been as supportive as I can, soothing and encouraging but she seems stuck in the 'it's fine at this age' and won't tackle it. I'm getting more and more frustrated when she seeks more assurances. Her DD is adorable but I'm beginning to think she'll be in nappies at school at this rate.

Would you say something or stay out of it?

SEN exempt of course. We are sympathetic and want to help the children. I'm talking about parents who can't be arsed and think that toilet training is yet another school responsibility -- this is a growing phenomenon. School aren't there to sort out/take responsibility for society's ills.

*If there’s no SN there’s no reason

Not true. My not SN child had constipation from birth which caused toilet avoidance. I was at my wit’s end potty training, which took two years, not because I couldn’t be bothered.*

But you tried - the OP has said that her friend hasn’t tried. And although obviously not a diagnosed special need, your child did have a type of special need specifically for potty training, and even that didn’t stop you from attempting it. I really don’t mean to insult people who’s children took longer, it’s the attitude of ‘waiting until they’re ready’ which essentially means wait until they’ll do it with no input from parents. If your kid has shown no sign of doing it themselves by 3, parents should try and teach them

Whose**

It's not really your buisness. I have a dd must literally turned 2 who is virtually fully potty trained, but one of my others (boy) was 3.5 when he was fully trained and my other one (boy again) was 4 years and 2 months when he finally was fully out of pull ups. They are all different. As long as she's encouraging the child to use the toilet then I agree that it's best to let them be. With reference to ds that struggled and was 4 before he got it, I listened to nursery and other busy body's and took pull ups off him, was fine for wees but he made himself so ill with holding his poo, he was sick in the end because he hadn't pooed so long, not worth putting any child through that.

Business!

Of it was my friend I wouldn't be able to lie and assure her it was fine if she asked my opinion. I'd say I thought nursery were right in trying to get her out of nappies and was there anything i could do to help.

If she asks for your opinion, you're more than welcome to give it, but if she's happy with what she's doing, and is just making conversation about it, then it's not really your place to say when her child is ready to potty train. Some kids are ready at 18 months, some not until closer to school age. There really isn't a "normal" for it. It's not just about being physically ready, there are huge mental and emotional aspects involved in when a child is ready to regulate elimination. When left for the child to decide when they're ready, it makes for a far nicer experience for parent and child. Forced potty training can cause many ongoing issues, urinary tract and kidney infections, later life incontinence, constipation, and long term psychological issues around toileting. Far better to let the child determine when they're ready, sometimes with a gentle push (talking about it more, suggesting having a go etc) towards it if they're getting close to school age, but if they're not ready, you should not force the issue. My eldest is extremely bright and was talking in full sentences way before her 2nd birthday, writing her own name and numbers, and I kept getting comments from people saying that as she was so clever and having full on conversations why on earth wasn't I potty training her... Simple, she wasn't emotionally ready for it, and wasn't until 2yrs 9 months. She decided that day she didn't want to wear nappies, and put on pants, was dry day and night ever since, with possibly 3 accidents maximum in the entire time she's been out of nappies. She's now 4.5 and some of her friends who were trained much earlier still have frequent accidents and wear pull ups at night. I 100% agree with letting the child dictate on this one. It is their body, and they should decide when they are ready. Obviously the toileting idea needs to be planted, and parents speaking with their children about wearing pants instead of nappies when they're ready, and teaching them about their bodily functions will help the child progress with it, but the desicion isn't down to the parents, and certainly shouldn't be down to friends/family/nursery staff.

To answer your question, no YANBU for thinking it. I'd think it too.

Many children are not diagnosed with conditions or disabilities until much later. Late potty training is used as an indicator that something is going on.nursery pushed both my children to be trained.both have disabilities that made them Later than average.

I don’t think anyone judges a parent who attempts to toilet train their child and finds said child finds it difficult or can’t do it yet. Everyone’s kids struggle with different things - my son potty trained at 2 with few accidents, but it took him until he was 4 to stop hitting people who annoyed him 🤦‍♀️ I truly believe that I wasn’t judged for that by my ‘mum friends’ because they all knew I was trying my best to fix the problem.

I think the vast majority of judgement is aimed at the fact the OP has said her friend hasn’t tried at all.

I’m no expert, but I recall reading something about a window of opportunity for potty training. For NT children leaving it too late can lead to the child becoming used to ignoring the signals, which then makes it more difficult when later trying to potty train.

I remember reading something like this too.

Obviously you don’t know if your friends dd is having issues or may at some stage be diagnosed with additional needs. For the moment it sounds as if your friend isn’t bothered and that is concerning and not something to be encouraged.

Well if this were a good friend of mine, and I was certain that the child had no Sen, then I would say something (kindly). I would also offer to help toilet train her child, or at least get started, if my friend was anxious about change.
I think you're right to be concerned, there is no reason to leave toilet training till 4 in a non-Sen child.

Thanks for that info Pantsy. I shall look into it.Much appreciated. :)

If you are certain her child has no SEN, and starts school in September, I would suggest to DF - if she asks - that she starts toilet training. It will be very embarrassing for her little girl to start school in September still wearing nappies, if there is no reason for it.

She is asking your opinion but seeking your reassurances and so by you not being truthful to her about your opinion, you are agreeing that it's fine for her child to still.be in nappies.

Next time she asks, be truthful and maybe she might realise that actually this isn't normal

Pantsy It certainly sounds like the latter to me!! Bloody well done.

It is really bizarre to state outright that it’s rubbish that some children just aren’t ready. What??’ At what age?! Do people honestly believe that all children are born ready to toilet/potty train? Or that all children can do it at the same age? If so, do you believe the same about speech, mark making, eating, kicking a ball etc? Kids develop at different ages - SURELY that’s just a fact, potentially lazy parents or not??

Bettythedevil My 4YO is out of nappies in the day but uses one to poop in due to being terrified of the toilet. She will happily wee in them though! This was my DC!

And mine!! He's now nearly 16 and definitely over that fear

Wonder if we know the same person. I know somebody in a similar situation. She has a child, the child has fantastic speech and language skills, seems bright, happy. No other delays yet isn’t trained at nearly 4 and due to start school soon.

So she isn’t actually attempting to potty train her? Whilst I don’t agree with pushing a young child to be trained if they aren’t ready, at her child’s age I’m pretty certain the child is capable (if there’s no sen) and ready for it.

I admit my DS was a late to be potty trained he was 3.5 - 4 BUT he has autism and was non verbal until 4 so he actually did well when I really think about it.

DD wasn’t trained until about a month after her 3rd birthday (also suspected asd). She went from not getting it at all, having no understanding of her bodily functions to being fully trained within 4/5 weeks!! It was hard but I didn’t give up and wouldn’t give in and put nappies back on.

I wonder if it’s more that the child doesn’t want to, rather than cannot? Either way the child needs to be out of nappies.

If it was me I’d just ditch the nappies now! A child soon learns once they feel wet.

If it was my friend, I wouldn’t want to interfere nor would I want them to feel like I was judging but j would be offering good potty training advice in a friendly manner!

I’m astonished that anyone would think this is ok. Of course a child with no SN should be out of nappies before they start school. It is absolutely not the nursery or school’s job to deal with this. I would definitely have a quiet word with your friend - the alternative is her DD potentially being bullied.

At the preschool my kids attended, they had to be toilet-trained to go into the "Three's" class! DD was fine, DS had accidents and it was touch-and-go for a while whether he'd be able to stay. I understood that this was their policy, though, and I made a huge effort to get him potty trained during the day. Nighttimes were another matter though, it took years!

As PP's have said, if there's no SEN, I think your friend should at least give it a try, but it's not really your place to say anything. You could pass on some tips, make some suggestions, though.

Difficult situation.

I think that very few people are saying that it’s fine for reception children to still be in nappies. Most people seem to be either saying that it’s not as unusual as you might think; or that children are ready at different ages; or that children develop differently; or that often SEN aren’t diagnosed until a few years later.

My boy toilet trained himself just before he turned 4. He was just ready.
It has nothing to do with you.

Of course a child with no SN should be out of nappies before they start school.

Nice one bookworm, totally missing the point the SN are not infrequently diagnosed a lot later than 'nearly 4'.

So, there people are, merrily judging away, not specifically just in the case of the OPs friend, but in general, for them to be diagnosed at 7,8, 9.... 13........ totally unknowing, but judging a parent of a child with SN who has not got their nearly 4 year old potty trained!

Yanbu. I think she should be out of nappies, seems pretty unfair on the child if the mum isn't making the effort - the child could be teased or ridiculed by other children at nursery/school.

Also really bad for the environment.

I don't think you should be judging her too harshly. We potty trained dd fairly early, but then for some reason she had a relapse at about 4 and we had to out her back into pull-ups for the night. everyone is different. I think looking back, I have been very judgemental of what I thought was bad parenting in the past, but with hindsight and a bloody difficult dd, perhaps I was wrong.