To think friends child should be out of nappies

[FreshAprilStart]

Context. My friend is brilliant. Such a great mum, does so much with her children and very loving and kind. But. She gets very anxious about them and managing change.

When asked, I've always been reassuring about things like co-sleeping and so on and fussy eating and saying it all falls into place in time which it usually does.

The thing is that her DD is quite tall for her age and nearly 4 now but is still in nappies. No issues or special needs. The nursery has even said they want to get her out of nappies soon as it's now becoming noticed by other kids. My friend just ignores it all.

I've been as supportive as I can, soothing and encouraging but she seems stuck in the 'it's fine at this age' and won't tackle it. I'm getting more and more frustrated when she seeks more assurances. Her DD is adorable but I'm beginning to think she'll be in nappies at school at this rate.

Would you say something or stay out of it?

If shes asking your opinion its bothering her, so I'd be honest. Can she not face potty training & maybe you can help her with tips etc? Is it that she's trying to delay the baby stage? When I was teaching all the local primary schools wouldn't accept a child (without SEN) who wasn't potty trained, do they not mind now? I'd be worried I'd be really judged by teaching staff for sending her un potty trained & in nappies at past age 4, but years ago the majority of children seemed to be dry in the daytime by 3.5, bar the odd accident.

My DD was 3.5 when she was 'trained' she got it straight away -that time! Had given many times over the previous year or so but she just didn't have it.
She was dry at night months before the daytime though.

I would think a 4 year old out and about would practically toilet train themselves

No, not necessarily. Modern day disposables are super absorbent, create next to no sense of discomfort and hardly ever need to be changed. From the kid's point of view, why use the toilet? Peeing in a disposable all day long requires no effort and means you never have to interrupt your play with boring things like toilet breaks.

I would think a 4 year old out and about would practically toilet train themselves which suggests to me something else is going on perhaps without OPs knowledge.

That is possible but I'm not sure with modern nappies being so effective and keeping the child dry it is true. Without being taught how does a child know there is an alternative, why would they want to stop playing or doing whatever when they are dry and comfortable? It's liking weaning a baby, they start using fingers/hands to feed themselves it's effective it works they only change that behaviour if they are taught there is another way (using cutlery). Now that can be taught by parent at home or by other children and nursery/school pointing it out.

I'm not sure at what age children would start noticing the difference but I think by 4 it's reasonable parents have tried potty training. Like I said if this has happened and hadn't worked of course no one should be judging that child or parent. But to be saying 4 is to young to try is something I wouldn't support.

I would say if/when asked that I thought the child was ready to try if the parent/my friend said I have tried and they don't get it I would support them in waiting but giving it a try starts with the parent in my opinion.

Of course I'm saying that with only the knowledge the op has that there is no reason to think the child would struggle of course the parent may know something we don't.

This was the one part of parenting that petrified me. Dd might have been 2.5 or slightly younger and my cousin used to take her overnight (was always minding waifs or strays so had potties and had trained her previous child-mindee). So she brings her back to me on Sunday and declares - she's potty trained! I was like - PRAISE THE LORD! So the potty was brought out and seemed really good! She was is her own childminder (who had potty trained 6 of her own) so she went to her Mon-Fri. She seemed to be immediately trained with poos - but occasionally wet herself. She was trained at night from maybe late into aged 3, but would occasionally wet the bed. That stopped around aged 6 (I used to lift her to the toilet before I went to bed and that usually carried her through to morning).

I honestly think that if my lovely cousin hadn't started - I'd have left it another few months. It just wasn't in my 'things I know how to do' list.

What you might do is bring a potty over and start her off with it. Once I knew the process had started I was totally into it but I just didn't even know where or how to start!

A lot of people are using the term SEN which means "special educational needs," the issue here would be if the child has general special needs SN. There are conditions that have nothing to do with learning/education that could cause late incontinence and so the child's speech and mental development could be on target or advanced yet she still has some other medical SN.

Just think people are using the term incorrectly.

The child's size has nothing to do with it.

I take it that her dd is her oldest child? So she has no previous experience of toilet training. Is your friend trying to unconsciously keep her dd a toddler? It’s possible that your friend really doesn’t know what to do. If she asks you again maybe you could mention some books to give her guidance.

If your friend is is like me, she probably just doesn't know how to.

Both mine were in nappies until over 3. (We lived in a different, less uptight country 😂) Neither of them ever had any accidents, not even a wee. It beats carrying a fucking potty around like I used to see whenever we came home for a visit.

My DS was toilet trained during the day just after being 3 & dry at night 3 months later. He was diagnosed ASD, Hypotonia & Dyspraxia when he was 9, he has bowel problems, chronic constipation but that is part of his condition. I honestly think that unless the disability is severe that most children are ready for toilet training before they are 4, my nephew has a severe form of ASD & ADHD but was still dry well before he was 4.

Wow at the number of posters on here who've had the same issues we had and later a dyspraxia diagnosis... And not one medic has ever mentioned the link to us until I came across it quite strongly in the academic literature. What that says about support for parents of kids who are late to achieve continence is pretty shocking really

I think tht sometimes there are just difficulties. Sone upthread says that the poster says it is unlikely to bea SN issue, but the reality is that the OP simply does not know, unless the OP is a professional and has done an assessment. And as others have poinnted out, children tend to be diagnosed much later. I agree that there sometimes is a rush to say 'there must be SN' but I tend to think that is more because MNetters generally tend to understand that sometimes there ARE issues.

The OP's friend is clearly anxious about it - or she would not be asking for reassurance. And she is anxious because she is probably feeling judged this way to Sunday. Again I think the Op should just gently reply 'If you are concerned, why not talk about this to ... your HV; GP; whoever).

FWIW, my DS (the late toilet-training, ASD and dyspraxic one) was also late to talk. He never said a single word until after 4. Not mummy, no, yes, biscuit, not a word. He just screamed or grunted. The number of people who said variations to me along the lines of ' 'Are you actually talking to him? ' Or 'maybe it is because you used a forward facing stroller' or some other variation of making out that I was somehow at fault was debilitating, depressing, undermining. Sometimes there really ARE other things going on. Sometimes not.

And on another issue- how come we have gotten to 164 posts without speaking of the OP's friend's husband or partner. The father of this child. The mum is 'lazy'.Or 'oblivious' or the mum has to sort this toilet training out Where is the dad in all this, or is this child -rearing lark just women's work (at least when things go wrong?'. !!!!

(It's only just ocurred to me too, but actually, it's a little 'interesting' that all the blame and responsibility has been placed at the door of the mum).

sorry about the typos- half my keyboard is stuck down with honey and toast crumbs. My formerly non-speaking DS is now a wild computer-loving chatterbox. :)

"she’s getting close to the age where other children will start teasing her for being a baby in nappies"

Perhaps people should sort out their children's nasty behaviour.

And on another issue- how come we have gotten to 164 posts without speaking of the OP's friend's husband or partner. The father of this child. The mum is 'lazy'.Or 'oblivious' or the mum has to sort this toilet training out Where is the dad in all this, or is this child -rearing lark just women's work (at least when things go wrong?'. !!!!

Because the OP is talking about the child’s mum asking if it’s ok that her 4 year old is in nappies? Many many people have said ‘parents’ throughout, which implies it is mum and dad’s job.

Schools are not allowed to discriminate against children who are still in nappies CISblonde these days thankfully.

What is it she is waiting for exactly?

It's all very well saying there may he SN or a condition of some sort involved but if she hasnt tried/hasnt discovered the issurs then she cant pin point that part of any of it yet anyway.

Shes very silly leaving or so long . If there are problems she has no time to try and solve them before school starts. Shes screwed herself and her kid over with that bit tbh.

Does she have a support network? Can she get help attempting?
Maybe shes worried about being house bound clearing up pids on her own alone for months?

@FreshAprilStart - what are you going to do?

Honestly Why would she prefer to change the nappies of a four year old 🤢
I was delighted when mine were dry. Much easier.

I’d be saying that to her...

Indeed iris which makes me think there is more going on the the Op is aware of , it's not fun or pleasant changing the nappy of an older child ,my child is nine and still in nappies (he's disabled) I would love for him to be able to use the toilet .

Indeed iris which makes me think there is more going on the the Op is aware of , it's not fun or pleasant changing the nappy of an older child ,my child is nine and still in nappies (he's disabled) I would love for him to be able to use the toilet

It's also possible though isnt it that as with anything else, any other stage, the list if things sold, the horror stories of the time your kid shit in the school playground , the sheer amount of crap people say you need for this that and the other, combined with carpets everywhere and a company car you cant risk getting dirty or unsupportive husbands/wives.. the whole thing can be very daunting and maybe she just doesnt know where to start?
That actually it might be fairly straightforward and over with quickly.

That not everyone sits at home in isolation for a year, with a stock of every potty and toilet seat style ever made.

Maybe shes believed one horror story too many and has talked herself out of her own ability to do it?

A long time ago, my friend was like this. Turns out that she knew this would be her last baby and the nappies were a sort of link to babyhood. Once she got her head around that, and that actually it was about HER not her child, they had it all dissed inside a weekend. The child was 5.

My youngest ds wasn’t out of nappies until almost 5 , he has asd. We did try toilet training numerous times before that though

If she hasn’t tried how is she going to know if she has difficulties though, I wouldn’t be reassuring her it was ok not to even try

Oh and no child ever said anything to ds about being in nappies

If people have children making comments they should be telling them to stop