To think friends child should be out of nappies

[FreshAprilStart]

Context. My friend is brilliant. Such a great mum, does so much with her children and very loving and kind. But. She gets very anxious about them and managing change.

When asked, I've always been reassuring about things like co-sleeping and so on and fussy eating and saying it all falls into place in time which it usually does.

The thing is that her DD is quite tall for her age and nearly 4 now but is still in nappies. No issues or special needs. The nursery has even said they want to get her out of nappies soon as it's now becoming noticed by other kids. My friend just ignores it all.

I've been as supportive as I can, soothing and encouraging but she seems stuck in the 'it's fine at this age' and won't tackle it. I'm getting more and more frustrated when she seeks more assurances. Her DD is adorable but I'm beginning to think she'll be in nappies at school at this rate.

Would you say something or stay out of it?

@Graphista

Very well said

I'm just really shocked at the disgustingly disablist attitudes on this thread - I believe almost exclusively from people with NO experience or expertise in paediatric medicine! (At least I bloody hope they don't!)

Mn is supposed to be supportive of parents this thread is so far against that it's unreal!

Why should we be supportive of a parent who has made no efforts to toilet train a 4 year old? This is not a thread about a child with disabilities. The OP expressed no concerns about the child in that regard. Most of the posters are likeky not medical professionals, but this is not about diagnosing a medical condition it is about a parent who has shown no signs of toilet training a child and is looking for reassurance from a friend who is clearly concerned about it

Children are different.

DC1 showed signs of being ready for toilet training when she was two, so we showed her how to use a potty and a toilet, dressed her in just a T-shirt for a couple of days, and after a week she was fully toilet trained (although she needed help wiping after a poo for a long, long time).

DC2 showed signs of being ready for toilet training shortly after he turned two, so we showed him how to use a potty and a toilet, dressed him in just a T-shirt for a couple of days, and two and a half years later he was fully toilet trained. He managed the whole wiping after a poo thing earlier than his sister, though.

She’s four, no SEN and asks to be changed. Of course she shouldn’t be in nappies, not one bit. It’s embarrassing for the poor kid if anything. This really needs resolving before she starts primary school, reception teachers do not want to be changing nappies.

She's asking you, so say what you think.

The height thing is bogus.

My tiny 3year old has been TT.for a year. She uses a "big toilet" if there's no tiny toilet

I pushed too hard for my DD1 to potty train at 2 and she seemingly succeeded. But she later developed an anxiety about the toilet and regressed badly at 4 years old when DD2 came to live with us aged 1. (They’re both adopted, birth sisters.)

DD1 started soiling herself regularly, mostly when we were out and about because she had a phobia of public toilets. (She still does. She has hearing aids, though, and finds the hand dryers very disturbing.). M

The soiling stopped finally when she was 7 and there’s been no regression since, she’s now 10.

I handled things completely differently with DD2. I waited until she was just under 3. She caught on quickly, though she did struggle with asking to go to the toilet at her playgroup and soiled herself a few times.

DD1 has no obvious issues, she’s tall and well developed, so her soiling herself at age 6/7 might well have appeared weird. She has adoption related attachment issues, though, which no one would realise if we didn’t tell them about it. It’s not ‘lazy parenting’.

Good post Graphista.

I wish people would understand that many conditions are not diagnosed until much later on.

My child 'had no SEN' when he started infants but had two diagnosed lifelong conditions by the time he left primary.

Looking back there were very clear indications of both, from much earlier had anyone ever actually taken an interest. The massive difficulty in potty training, shared with the HV, was one of these. He was my first child so I had no bench mark.

The mother in the OP may be a feckless potty dodger so beloved of the Daily Mail or she may have a child with a difficulty.

If she's after assurance, give it to her in a way that will help her move forward. So give her assurance that her dd will take to using the toilet really quickly. Assure her that she could just explain it to dd and she will get it. Assure her that she may have a few accidents to start with, but that's normal. she will get it in no time at all. Assure her that dd is ready.

I know there are children who don't. If she gives you any inclination that there is a medical issue, then change your tack.

My Ds is now a teenager but he was over 3 when he was potty trained. I do agree with some of the other posters as far as sen goes though. He is currently being assessed for asd at 14. Not every child has a diagnosis before they go to school.

I think encourage your friend without judging. Both my dds were late to toilet train at around 3.6. Dd1 turned out to have ASD but dd2 was just not ready despite seeming mature and articulate.

When my DC were toddlers, back in the 1970s, the guidelines were to start potty training at 2 years old. But back then it was bulky terry nappies and a toddler's awareness of a sopping-wet/full nappy (plus a whole load of nappy rash). That gave them a clue, and it wasn't too difficult to introduce the idea that there was a more comfortable alternative, namely a potty or a toilet. And some 2 year olds got that, though many didn't until later, around 3 years old.

Nappies are much better these days, so often they don't get the clue of feeling uncomfortable or sore.

This child is no longer a toddler. But she does have awareness that her nappy needs changing. Given that she has that signal, that should be the point where her mother introduces her to a better alternative. If she hasn't done that, then she's restricting her child's natural development.

Of course there can be undiagnosed issues in the child. But if the mother isn't signposting to her 4 year old that she could use a potty or the toilet then how is that 4 year old going to progress?

I wouldn't start the conversation and I wouldn't give advice.

If asked I would say that you think she is ready to try toilet/potty training and see how it goes. Nothing is lost from trying and seeing how it goes apart from some extra washing.

To me it feels like she’s seeking validation for this. Which if you don’t feel her child should still be in nappies at her age, then you shouldn’t be giving it to her

I can remember when mums started saying to leave toilet training until the child was 3 as they were more ready and it was easier. Now it is leave it until they are ready which can be 4.
I think for children that are easy to toilet train any age 2 up will be fine. But I think with children that are harder to toilet train, leaving it too long can make it more difficult.
It used to be accepted though that for some children toilet training took a while. Now if a child is not toilet trained in a few days they are often deemed not to be ready.
And it is not rose tinted spectacles about toilet training. You did not used to be able to get nappies for children 4 plus except through SS SN nappy service.
In terms of regression, it has long been recognised that emotional difficulties can make a child who was previously toilet trained, no longer be. The child is actually physically still able to recognise the signals, but regressing is a sign of their distress.

And yes "There is now research suggesting a window of opportunity during which children are best toilet trained; some research suggests between 18 and 24 months while some recommends between 24 and 27 months"
www.continence.org.au/news.php/257/toilet-training-a-matter-of-time
After this time kids can be toilet trained, but it becomes harder. Of course most kids get there in the end though.

Don't offer up an opinion unless she asks. If she asks for reassurance about it tell her simply that at her age she shouldn't be in nappies. So t tell her she's doing right when you know she isn't if she asks you directly.

No I don't think this is OK if there are no SN/health issues and from what you describe, there aren't. DD was out of nappies by 2.5. DS was potty trained in terms of wee by 3, but was nearly 6 before he was out of nappies for poo. He has ASD and SPD and it was a massive sensory issue. He'd get in from school, want a nappy to do a poo and then want it off straight away. In the end I forced the issue by telling him that they didn't sell nappies for his age anymore. I had to do it otherwise he would never have overcome. He held it for 3 days and then finally went to the toilet although it was very stressful. I felt like the worst mum but it was the right thing to do. I think if she asks for reassurance, you don't give it...if she asks for advice then I'd tell her to get on with it. It's bloody lazy!

This particular child sounds more than ready to be toilet trained as she’s aware that she’s soiled and asks to be changed. It definitely sounds like mum is the issue. Next time she asks for validation I’d ask her when she plans to start training. Maybe offer to come round and keep her company for the first day if she feels anxious about it all?

She sounds like a lazy mare to not even try, to be honest. Teachers (rightly) get fed up with parents like this.

Can't believe the people on this thread who seem to be insisting that the child MUST have some kind of invisible disability going on, even though the OP has said again and again that this is really unlikely to be the case?

Haven't RTFT but my two have been very different regarding being toilet trained and the one who has SN was trained younger than the one who doesn't so it's not always a case of SN being the cause for late training.

Ds is now 16 and was diagnosed with AS when he was 8. He was toilet trained at 2.5 when he could barely talk.
Dd is now 8 and I was having conversations with her at 14 months, was quick at everything, except toilet training and wasn't fully trained until 3.

I do have a friend who didn't bother to try and train her dd until it was the summer holidays before she started school in the September and then panicked.

As far as we know though this mother hasn't tried to toilet train her child yet though so it's impossible to say if there are issues or not. If you try and the child isn't ready whatever the reason that's fair enough but that can't be known until you give it a go as I see it

Exactly.

It's OK to have a child who is slower to learn something as long as the parents are trying. I mean, my child is pretty terrible when it comes to learning to swim--very very slow progress. But the point is, we have worked on it and are doing everything we can do get her swimming! If I see parents who are making no efforts at all to get their child swimming and if there are no extenuating circumstances (like factors that make it really hard to go the pool, or the parent can't swim and no swimming lessons are available or affordable etc.), then I do find that a bit lazy.

I would think a 4 year old out and about would practically toilet train themselves which suggests to me something else is going on perhaps without OPs knowledge.