To think you need to jus lift your child?

[PugasaurusRex]

We had a visiting toddler today. When it was time to go he threw a mega tantrum and refused to leave or to return the toy he had hold of at the time.

His mother just stood there. And stood. And stood. Occasionally calling weakly "George... George.... Time to go now..." George would then bolt back into the playroom.

This went on for the best part of twenty minutes. Eventually he started throwing things at my elderly cat in a rage, so I had to go and physically remove George from the playroom, remove the toy from his grasp, and essentially post him out the front door with his mother trailing behind.

I've seen this in toddler groups too. Child won't put on shoes/leave/come away from the door, and instead of lifting them and removing them the parent just sort of stands and bleats at them.

Am I missing something? Is it now seen as wrong/too strict to tuck your child under your arm and match them off kicking and screaming? Mine are a little past that stage, but I remember it being a fun feature of their toddler years.

I feel that George's mother was quite happy for me to be the bad guy in this scenario... She's a perfectly fit woman so I'm not sure why else lifting the child was beyond her

Their toddler also hit my DS and repeatedly snatched toys from him and it was always “ohh don’t do that” in a soft voice and I wanted to scream by the end

This enrages me too. When did parents stop disciplining small children? Two year olds are old enough to be taken out of the room or play group or whatever and told off for hitting/throwing/pushing etc. Nobody does that anymore. Are parents just fine with their children behaving badly? A little boy continually pushed my toddler at a gym class recently and would immediately run into his mother’s arms after doing it. She would sit here cuddling and stroking him and singing “oh dear, come on, try not to push”. In the end I wouldn’t let my child go near him and put myself physically between them at all times.

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned the parents who won't ask their child again.

"I won't ask you again, Rubie-Mae."

Asks again until child decides it's bored and wants a change of scenery.

Or the “this is the last time I’ll tell you” parents....

My scary voice once brought half the playground to a screeching halt. We were waiting to pick up ds1 and ds2 from school, and ds3, aged about 3 was running around - he was out of my reach when he went up to a newly planted flowerbed, and reached out to pull up a plant. I shouted “Stop that NOW” and everyone in earshot stopped at once and looked at me in horror.

Scary mum voice was a real boon when they were little - we had no nonsense when it was time to leave places - I don’t know if it would still work - they have grown up fairly well (22, 24 and nearly 26), so I haven’t needed it in a while. They still say I am the scary parent too.

Possibly stayathomer but I think the majority here are talking about people they know reasonably well as opposed to a complete strangers "snapshot of their day".

"I find people with an actual physical disability have really well trained kids, because they’ve prioritised it as a necessity." That's a really interesting post and so true.

My dd is now 18, I became disabled when she was 6. But as I'd never been a wishy washy mum anyway it wasn't an issue.

In a fairly recent conversation she mentioned to me that a relatively new friend mistakenly thought she had a mum that "never said no", dd and her 2 closest friends laughed. Dd pointed out that actually as she was almost full grown (16/17 I think at time of conversation) she pretty much knew by this point what NOT to ask - because a "no" was guaranteed answer!

I'm not only a mother but cared for other people's babies/young children for over 30 years.

I agree it's a preposterous way to behave. It's not going to harm the child to be calmly but firmly dealt with. Done it many a time myself.

I get most infuriated though with the parents who won't intervene physically even when there's a health and safety risk, including to their own child. BONKERS!

I once had to really slam on brakes to avoid hitting a 2 year old who'd bolted in front of my car on a busy road because the mother thought it unnecessary to hold his hand, I must admit I tore into her in response to HER shouting and screaming at ME for "scaring" her child! Bloody idiot!!

"I just wanted to yell 'Whatever you're doing, IT ISN'T PARENTING!!!' " omg yes!!

My sister is like this, she's very much mum's gc and her eldest is hers and so basically treated like the second bloody coming most of the time - but once when he was throwing an almighty tantrum in a shop pulling things off the shelves and throwing them even my mum lost it with sisters pathetic whiny "please stop that DS" lifted him away from the shelves, carried him out to the car, plopped him on the back seat, told him he could come out when he packed in the tantrum and shut the door very firmly! Sister went apeshit threatening to report mum to ss for "child abuse" for "man handling and imprisoning my kid!" At which point mum lost it with her and gave her a bollocking for being a shit parent! - extremely rare mum tells her off for anything!

Sister and I are Nc - for many reasons, this sort of nonsense included.

Coffeecoffeecoffee I've saved your quote - so true.

I did once though overhear an early teen dd saying "if mums shouting and stropping I'm fine, if it's the calm, low 'do not push me' voice I know to behave" 😂

I'm currently on a couple of threads regarding appalling behaviour by bride/groomzillas I can't help but wonder if their parents were of the soft whiny

"Pleeeeeaase don't do that Tarquin"

Variety.

I find it very difficult to physically intervene. Not holding hands near road, that's fine, but manhandling out of supermarket, forcing into car seat etc. I just can't do it. Once had a toddler standoff in Sainsbury's for an hour unable to get DC1 in car seat. I ended up getting pushchair out of boot, getting child in and walking them until asleep and transferring them to car!

I've had to work hard to learn how to manage behaviour with DC. Thankfully they are out of the toddler/tantrum stage.

I know you are saying sensible things but I would not be happy at all if someone else manhandled my child Graphista.

When other children look on surprised that a parent doesn't deal with a tantrum child it always makes me laugh!

I’m a childminder for the last 19 years & it’s only in the last few years I’m experiencing this.

I now make it a policy to meet parents at the front door with their child, hand the child over, fill them in on their day & say good bye. It was getting ridiculous in the evening with kids running riot (kids always act up as soon as their parents arrive when they’ve been good for me all day) & the kids were either getting hurt or hurting someone else. Sometimes I’ll still have kids here or I’m finished work & have other things to do or places to go.

I think the parents prefer it this way now too as I’m sure they want to get home & possibly are embarrassed giving out to their children in front of me so they don’t do it.

All in all, it’s a much better system all round.

I should also add when mine were little I was very aware that at some point they would be bigger than me, especially my ds who is 16 & 6ft tall now & was always a big strong child, so I knew if I had no control over them as toddlers then I would me mightily screwed when they got older. On many occasions I would have to carry ds kicking & screaming under my arm out of a party or playground if he wasn’t behaving & yes it was mortifying but it didn’t stop me disciplining him. With the result now that he is a very well behaved teen & gives me no trouble at all. Nor does dd.

I work with children aged 8 to 10 and always remember the time I said to one 'I'm not going to tell you again ' and his response was 'what are you going to do then"

Changed my tactics after that!

I hate witnessing events like this. Was at the fair the other day and there was a tiny girl around 2 years old sat on the muddy floor crying as he mother just stood with her back to her a few feet away. I just wanted to scream ‘pick your child up and comfort her!’. It breaks my heart and I hope my DD is never put through that with her other caregivers

It isn’t acceptable with a toddler as they really don’t fully understand how to express themselves and it can be quite traumatic for them to be left screaming. I don’t care if my 3yo is crying over there being no chocolate cereal left, I’ll still cuddle her and make sure she’s okay. A 10 year old on the other should be able to regulate their own feelings so that’s completely different. YANBU OP

I used to not pick them up, but ai have twins. You might be able to bundle one toddler out the door, but by the time it gets to two you have to try to mostly rule by consent.

Oh God a friend was like this. Seb please, mummy needs to go now - in the softest wimpiest voice ever. Meanwhile Seb continues to ignore his mum.

Neverquiteasitseems - but that's the point he WASN'T "manhandled" the way my sister was making out! He was lifted and carried out to the car, placed on the back seat and contained within the car with my mum standing right next to it - as much for his own safety as for his behaviour! Nothing my mother did caused him any harm at all and likely prevented him from hurting himself!

If you "can't do it" then I'm sorry but in the kindest way you need to find other EFFECTIVE ways of controlling and protecting your kid! And "reasoning" with a tantrumming toddler is a nonsense they're not mature enough cognitively or emotionally

Your job as a parent is to raise them to behave in a way acceptable to society generally and not to do harm to themselves or others or to damage property. To set clear, known boundaries.

Something which I agree I see far too many parents not doing now.

Failure to do so IS a failure to parent.

My sister is an awful one of these gentle parents
Her and her DP ‘do not agree with shouting’ so DC are just asked nicely to do something
This worked with DC1 but it does not work with DC2 so they have given up

My DN seems to get hold of a very noisy item whenever she visits and she will make it make the noise over and over and over and over, I have experimented with seeing how long it takes for her parents to step in and ask her to stop the answer is NEVER so I end up having to say stop it give it to me

They also slam doors over and over and over - never ever told to stop doing it. I tried to modify a door to stop the slamming because it must drive my neighbours mad and Dsis moved the modification

Her DP never ever says a word
I think both don’t actually parent enough to be effective the DC as work long hours so some of it is guilt driven, they don’t want to tell them off at weekends and Dsis thinks it’s common and unsightly to March out with a child under arm or raise voice
Which is all fine for her in her own house but it is infuriating for me: Shouty Mum to my own DC

Graphista I did find other effective ways (well so far anyway, far from grown up). Not directed at you...but I think people take an odd sort of pride in how "no nonsense" they can be. It's possible to set boundaries etc while treating a child with respect and compassion. Sure I've had those moments where I've carried a child out under my arm. But that isn't intentional parenting, for me that's when it hasn't gone right.

People are talking about behaviour of children that impacts other people. It’s not not being proud of being no nonsense it’s infutsting when the child is being ‘respected by their parents but the host/child minder/person stuck behind you is given no thought! It’s not the right balance at all that people dread having one of these wishy washy parents and child around because it can be unbearable with no thought to other people

I mean, YANBU but it’s not necessarily as straightforward as not wanting to be the bad guy.

Our twins are 2.5 now and they have very limited understanding of words - they both have ASD, and one has other diagnoses too. Because there are two of them and because they’ve been delayed, I’ve been guilty of just doing things for them rather than asking them to do things and encouraging them to follow commands. I’m desperately trying not to automatically give snacks and drinks, or pick them up and carry them out - i have to try and teach them what the words mean rather than just doing it

Of course I wouldn’t last more than three or maybe four attempts at most before I picked them up (and it would be sooner if they were assaulting a cat!)

Surely rather than being no nonsense, it is accepting that sometimes very young children can not be reasoned with? And to continue to try often simply entrenches the refusal of very young kids.

I am the parent of the exception to the rule on Brussels sprouts chocolate choice. There was a time that DD would have chosen sprouts rather than chocolate. goodness know why. Maybe some sensory reason due to autism?

Ds is more conventional and would have been chocolate every time.

I had 3 under 2 (inc twins) and much as I adore them, they can be utter horrors. I’d carry them to the car and strap them in one by one, and run back for the next one. Once, in the Trafford Centre, I tied the twins together so I could hold hands with one of them and the Singleton so they wouldn’t run off. One of the twins is a stubborn little pest and even at 7 I regularly put him in the car almost naked for school and “let him decide” if he’s going to put on his uniform. Hasn’t failed yet.

I was very swift to act with DS1 when he was a toddler, and despised shilly-shallying parents. Unfortunately since having DS2 I've developed bad anxiety and become a bit of a bleater ; when he looks like he's going to kick off I panic (I have no idea why, my brain appears to have decided that toddler screaming = the end of days) and ridiculously genuinely don't know what to do. So find myself bleating weakly at him. Then once I calm down it's retrospectively mortifying. I might get 'Just pick him up!' tattooed on the back of my hand at some point...

Depends on how high the stakes are really. DS lying on floor in our hallway kicking the walls and begging to be allowed to play “in the garden” (on the main road, we live in a flat and don’t have a garden) - ignore and carry on with dinner, occasionally reminding him that isn’t a garden and we don’t play in the road.

DS lying in the middle of a four-lane road having turned into Liquid Child because he doesn’t want to finish crossing it - over my shoulder kicking and screaming and on our way, no debate or warnings given.