To think you need to jus lift your child?

[PugasaurusRex]

We had a visiting toddler today. When it was time to go he threw a mega tantrum and refused to leave or to return the toy he had hold of at the time.

His mother just stood there. And stood. And stood. Occasionally calling weakly "George... George.... Time to go now..." George would then bolt back into the playroom.

This went on for the best part of twenty minutes. Eventually he started throwing things at my elderly cat in a rage, so I had to go and physically remove George from the playroom, remove the toy from his grasp, and essentially post him out the front door with his mother trailing behind.

I've seen this in toddler groups too. Child won't put on shoes/leave/come away from the door, and instead of lifting them and removing them the parent just sort of stands and bleats at them.

Am I missing something? Is it now seen as wrong/too strict to tuck your child under your arm and match them off kicking and screaming? Mine are a little past that stage, but I remember it being a fun feature of their toddler years.

I feel that George's mother was quite happy for me to be the bad guy in this scenario... She's a perfectly fit woman so I'm not sure why else lifting the child was beyond her

A former friend of mine used 'Gentle Parenting' and 'Unconditional Parenting' techniques. Her children were dreadfully behaved and it really wasn't working for anybody. I only remember her picking her DS up and carrying him away from the child he was whacking once - then afterwards she kept trying to apologise for having 'lost it' with him! She seemed to think she'd just scarred him for life having removed his choice to batter other kids . She decided to home educate as she didn't want them educated in an 'authoritarian system'.

Apparently she has recently put her DC in boarding school because she can't cope now they are older (7 and 10). Talk about one extreme to the other!

The gentle parents in our village when I was growing up ended up emigrating and leaving their eldest behind he was so hideous

Due to illness and the fact 3yo DS is a giant I have resorted to my favourite tactic to get children to go anywhere.

”I can get there faster than you can! I’m gonna win!” Then you fake run in the direction you wanna go

90% of the time it works

Oh good lord don't get me started on gentle bloody parenting. Have any of you ever seen their official Facebook page? It's a fucking riot I kid you not.

I joined it as a new mum as I thought it sounded nice (fool!). I had a look at it the other day and was bloody horrified and left the group. Reason? One mum had posted that her little darling had (I'm not exaggerating) deliberately stamped on an injured birds head repeatedly until he killed it and then come in and told her what he'd done with no remorse. She dealt with it by just explaining she was very upset and burying the bird. No punishment (because they don't do punishment) no consequences (apart from the 'natural consequence of mum being sad) nothing.

What did posters say? "Oh that's sad, I can see why you're upset. Don't forget that 4 year olds don't understand or have empathy so he wouldn't know why it's so upsetting. Try talking to him about why you're sad" x100 of the same. There were one or two who said 'look, this is really concerning' but hardly any.

I mean bloody hell. A NT 4 year old callously offs an innocent creature with no shame, isn't sorry and is just told 'that makes mum sad', really?

Like I say I was disgusted. They're raising terrors.

I am gentle in they way that means I don't smack or scream at my children. But I'm sorry we owe it to our children to teach them about boundaries and discipline them so that they're able to function appropriately in the world. That's our job. Fucking bleating 'aww that makes me sad' is lazy shit parenting in my opinion.

I can’t stand parents that just bleat at their kids (perfect word for it op!!) but according to my kids I sound like a dinosaur when I’ve had enough 😂

motheroftinydragons I think the point about raising them so they function in the world is SO important. I have gentle tendencies, but when the chips are down, I say to myself 'you don't want to raise someone horrible [i actually use a very rude word] no one wants to be friends with, so follow through with the consequences/the lifting/whatever'

@Rainatnight I got asked on that group once in a very scathing way 'we'll do you just want your child to grow up to be compliant?'

Well not mindlessly so no, but actually as adults (and even children/young adults) in order to function in school and work you need to have a degree of compliance. You need to be able to take instruction through school, to do as you're asked at work without unnecessary argument or fuss - so yes compliance is kind of an essential life skill. Constantly just doing as you please doesn't work in the real world I'm afraid (as my three year old is currently in the process of learning - I'm currently getting quite a lot of practice in on The Look and The Voice at the moment!)

I haven't RTFT yet, but in a way I can see how this would happen.

I have a DD12 who is mostly lovely, but she's always been difficult about leaving play dates. If she's late for something at home I can quickly get bossy and cross, but if I'm picking up from friends, particularly if not a close friend of mine, I've often kept my repeated requests to leave very polite and low key, as I don't want to come across badly.

As she's used to a very different tone in similar situations at home, this invariably makes her ignore me and the whole process takes longer. I suspect the mum in question was doing a similar thing actually.

This kind of thread makes me laugh. OP posts about a mum not being in control. Over 250 posts of people saying “yep, yep, lift and go” and yet the thread is also full of “nobody does this any more, parents these days are so soft”

On most threads there are at least a few dissenting voices but not here, and yet it’s such a common thing that everyone is letting their kids run riot, I mean, everyone has stories about it happening but nobody is actually here saying they do it.

In conclusion, I think lift and go is far more common than people seem to think it is.

I think you are right, @Yabbers - I suspect it has to do with perception - the badly behaved child is so much more noticeable - and memorable - than the child who does what they are asked to, with minimal misbehaviour.

I’m a bit past all this now, as my kids are 20 and 16, but they were both wilful and would push boundaries as far as possible. Ask them once nicely then scoop up and remove was my method. Still have two wilful kids, but they both have lovely manners and morals, despite the fact my wilful daughter got excluded from school on several occasions and was then given early study leave, just to get her out of schooI. I have never had that much patience anyway, so that situation would have ground my gears and certainly would not have progressed past two minutes!

Homemade madness

Reason with s toddler

People don’t like to admit they are a Mr Whippy parent and lack awareness of it TBH

If they have no idea how much it fucks off other people to stand over their child meekly calling them they won’t recognise that we are discussing them!

I remember being in the queue at wilkos. Me and my 2yo and in front of us was a mother and her 2 children around 4&6. They asked for sweets which were at the till and mum said no. This made them fall to the floor limbs flailing and mouths screaming calling their mother all sorts. Obviously my 2 year old was intrigued and started to lower himself to join in on their fun game. I said 'get up, NOW' in my mum voice and all three children shot up in a flash. Her kids looked at me in complete silence like I was the most awful thing in the world and the mother gave me a dirty look, so I looked back at her as if to say 'well if your controlled your children I wouldnt have too'.

I absolutely hate parents like her. There is no excuse to let your child be a complete dickhead just because you can't be arsed dealing with it. Next time use a fucking condom and save us all the hassle.

In fairness some parents don't know how to deal with tantrums. If you have had poor parenting yourself, parenting is extra tough as you have no template of good parenting to base it on.
And many parents I have met who are the soft wimpy kinds, were as kids hit a lot and are determined to bring their kids up a different way. So they don't hit their kids or swear and curse at them, which is good, but they don't really know what to do instead.

Yabbers - or else the "lift and goers" are on mn and the bleaters are on netmums elsewhere?

I think the most important thing is to parent the child you have rather than pick the parenting method first. I would've loved a softly softly, gentle parenting approach with my kid... And so would he as he would've eaten me alive! He's iron willed and temperamental so not a cat's chance in hell for that approach to work, frustratingly distraction doesn't work either and never has so I'm just left with enforcing consequences and threats

CheshireCat - definitely!

Before dd was born I was planning on being a laid back, routine free, go with the flow type mum...

...instead I got a child that craved and DEMANDED a strict routine, hates not knowing what she's doing the next day, strong willed, argumentative, outdoorsy, high energy (needs wearing out to be able to sleep well), very physically oriented, likes definites, hates not having boundaries

That's just who she is.

When she was tantrum age it didn't happen often but when it did - oh wow! My mum didn't believe me, mums eldest of 6 and many many cousins (Catholic family) so lots of experience with kids, but she knows I do too (eldest of 3, loads of cousins, been looking after other people's kids since I was 14) but still...

Until she saw dd COMPLETELY lose it because we were delayed for a mealtime.

Mum was like
"Oh my god in all my years I've never seen anything like that!"

Then mum understood why I didn't even attempt to talk to dd when she was like that let alone "distract" or "reason" with her. Literally all I could do was bundle her up and carry her away from others and either put her in cot if we were home or hold her firmly to stop her hurting herself.

Dd wasn't reacting out of anger but fear. She'd panic if her routine was disrupted.

Even at 18 she still needs routine, fresh air daily (when we were snowed in by beast from the east she got seriously distressed at one point - like claustrophobic panicky state), that situation also threw her as she didn't know whether she'd be able to get out and go to work the next day etc she HATED the uncertainty. The difficulty was she couldn't risk going out until paths/roadways were fairly clear because of her disability as if she had she risked serious injury due to her disability.

Also for her generation she's something of a Luddite/anachronism NOT a screen obsessed teen at all! Hates texting, prefers older films, tv and music...

It's quite odd really because I'm a total tech head in terms of use (though as I age I'm finding it harder to learn new skills) but eg she doesn't like Googling or sm particularly but will buy and read newspapers and watch tv news and current affairs shows.

Her bff once said its like we'd done a freaky Friday on a long term basis

I can easily chat away with her friends about the latest films/tv/some of the newer music whereas she can be oblivious.

And we are the ones usually that "get" our kids too. Although not always.

That's where I used to get frustrated with my sister as she doesn't read her own kids well. Her middle child especially gets ignored a lot because he doesn't make a fuss ever but he's had difficulties at school etc because he's too pliable, too easily led and she's done nothing to address this to his detriment. She's repeating patterns in our family history to a degree - it's complicated

People don’t like to admit they are a Mr Whippy parent and lack awareness of it TBH

Are you kidding @PookieDo?

I find they are very aware and very vocal about being so. Often in a very superior way.