dd very distressed

[Springwalk]

My dd is leaving her school at the end of the term she has been there since reception, and is very upset. She has/had a wonderful set of friends, and over the years we have had a lovely time together with the parents and the children with no problems at all. It has been great up to now.

DD (10) is leaving at the end of the summer to go to another school, I spoke to each parent individually before we accepted the place so they could tell their dc. All were initially very happy for us.

A few weeks ago dd's friends actively started to leave her out at play times. One of them has arranged a sleepover and invited everyone but her. They talk about all the things they are planning to do, and try to exclude her. It is really very very upsetting and she has been sobbing every night. I have tried to comfort her each night and tell her it won't be long until she leaves, but she is so distressed she doesn't even want to go to school anymore.

I am amazed that friends that have been with us for so long would do this to her.I expected a certain amount of regrouping, I expected a few changes and adjustments to be made, but I did not dream that it would come to this.

I have no idea what to do. Do I talk to the school? I doubt they will be interested as she is leaving. Talk to the parents? And see if they can intervene...or just continue to teach my dd to rise above it and ignore it. It is difficult to rise above this when you are only ten and these girls have been your best friends since you were four.

Please advise me, what would you do? I am at a complete loss and feel awful for her.

Sorry I meant to say you said to Sweeny that the two girls you knew from her new school are from different schools. But then in a post on Friday you said there was a girl from your daughter’s year but not in her class going and this was the one who was telling everyone...and this was the reason you told the other parents. I’m guessing you didn’t mean to but you have been drip feeding a lot!

Whatever the situation Im afraid children are always thinking about the next thing rather than the past. So even though they have all been friends when looking forward they know she is heading in another direction so they plan between them. Only time is going to sort this Im afraid.

Good luck op, not the same but when we moved and ds had to change schools, it was very telling who his and our true friends were, we’re no longer in touch with his so called BFFs...I was as devastated (you’re only human not a robot!) as you but a few months on he’s settled and made some lovely friends. I keep in touch with those mums who always were friends, not just due to school connections. I hope everything turns out ok, sounds like you have a teacher who is supportive. You and DD will ride this out.

I’ve been through all kinds of school dramas over the years and learned some very valuable lessons that only come with experience. My advice would be to take your dd out of school for these last weeks before she officially leaves. She can do work at home and online and will not be impacted in any way academically. Right now her mental health and well being is more important. The fact that the school saw she was withdrawn and unhappy but did nothing until you went in to speak to them is disgraceful. She will feel so supported and relieved if you take her out now. The kids who stay in touch and come around over the next few weeks are the ones who really care so then you’ll know. I would also revise my list of people invited to the end of term party. Your daughter is not going to be comfortable or happy having to socialise with kids who have made her life so miserable. Just don’t invite the ones who have been so unkind. I’m not interested in anyone saying that going through these things is good for kids and builds resilience etc etc. I’ve seen the long term effect that this kind of insidious bullying can cause and the lessons learned do not outweigh the damage done. You’ll both be happier if you take her out and she can start to look forward to all the good things ahead instead of dreading every day and crying herself to sleep every night.

I don't think you did anything wrong in telling people. Why shouldn't you? I haven't read all the replies, but I would suggest you get the teacher involved and keep inviting these girls over as you would. And make home life for your DD as lovely as possible. She's only got a few months left so if anything it might make leaving easier. We'll done to your DD though.

I meant well.

She cant take her out of school for the next few weeks thats not of any benefit.

"I didn't think for a minute that jealousy would be an issue, simply because they are our friends."

I fear the truth is that human nature being what it is, envy can be felt amongst friends as well! Though mostly, friends don't act on it - so I suppose in that sense it is not usually an issue.

(If that is what it is here - I would beware of assuming that it is just envy - maybe other things going on as well. School friendships become fraught for many reasons. One example at this age is that some of the girls are getting much 'older' than others in their interests etc (make up, fashion, hair - 10 sounds young for that but it isn't) and that can lead to some distancing by the more sophisticated of them. In a way does the reason matter? it's still incredibly hurtful for the left behind dc).

Also op, have you noticed the dparents changing towards you? Less available for coffee, icy at the schoolgates? If not, it may not be anything they have done/said to the dc at all.

I'm really struck by how you refer to the situation in ways like, "our class" and "we are going to a new school". It's as though you haven't got a separation between you and your social identity and that of your daughter.

I was also surprised that I didn't see anyone comment on this, as I had quite a reaction to it.

the other girl that is leaving is not part of the same friendship group or class, and only moved here a year ago. So it has been okay for her, as she hasn't settled into proper friendships and so no one is really bothered. My dd however has been there from the start, has been key part of this small group since the year dot, and we are not finding it so easy.

What was your reaction to ,Jayne Poole - was it to the "so noone is really bothered" about the other girl? Yes, that is rather sad. And the fact that she hasn't settled into proper friendships - it can be very difficult joining a new school out of the normal timescale.

Jayne I certainly agree with the school identity bit

Op read the second bit Jayne has highlighted because it sums up the issue you expected there to be more issues but you never accounted for the negative way this could manifest or how quickly children adapt

And the way you dismiss the other girl is awful

Speak to her teacher. Even if she is leaving I am sure the teachers could talk to the kids about not excluding children. My son is being excluded by kids at school and they are all due to leave at the end of term as they are in their last year at this school. His teacher is still putting things in place to try to fix things for my son even though it won’t be her problem in three months. Depends on the teacher / school. You did what you thought was right, it is so hard to watch your child being left out, good luck.

Sorry my highlighting didn't work. This is the quote from OP that I meant,
the other girl that is leaving is not part of the same friendship group or class, and only moved here a year ago. So it has been okay for her, as she hasn't settled into proper friendships and so no one is really bothered. My dd however has been there from the start, has been key part of this small group since the year dot, and we are not finding it so easy.

Also this from this morning,
I have decided that my dd really doesn't need 'friends' like this, they are the very last people we want in our inner circle.

You and your daughter are separate people. The people she wants in her close friendship will and should be different to those you want in yours. Also, sometimes she will choose friends that you wouldn't choose, because she's the one having to live her life and manage it.

To anyone reading I strongly recommend "How To Bully Proof Your Kid" which takes a very practical, pragmatic approach to supporting our children in groups.

I just find it so strange that the OP is being laid into and picked apart. Her DD is having a hard time being excluded and rejected, and she’s understandably worried and upset and trying to think things through.

To answer a PP ages ago, I think there is envy in the mix here because OP’s D has got into a great school and that can trigger envy even if people aren’t in that situation (such as some posters here). There can be a quality of wanting to cut someone down to size, of finding their privilege objectionable. Of feeling that the OP has ‘too much’ and it’s unfair, and they don’t deserve support on top of the privilege they enjoy. After all getting into that school suggests advantages in terms of education, lifestyle, income.

There’s no other reason why the OP is getting a hard time from some people.

ittakes2 Honestly. The girls will go on 'in time' to good schools too, in time I mean't they are not going now!!!! As in they will be going in two years time, There is nothing condescending about that. It is a fact. I am simply saying there time will come soon enough, not now, not imminently but in time. They will all leave at some point. Please don't misquote my posts.

You seem to be looking for problems. We know two girls going to dd's new school. One is in another school and we hardly ever see her, and the other is in our year but we hardly see her either. The girls hardly know each other. Is that clear for you now? Both girls have been invited here in a few weeks.

Divide and conquer.
In my experience of this, there is a ringleader who is manipulative, and everyone else follows on, largely unaware that they are excluding someone and hurting their feelings.

Organise fabulous playdates out of school quietly with the little girls who she is closest to and slowly remove the bully's power base, but without being obvious or acknowledging the situation.

Be business as usual with the other Mothers generally and throw in a "Have the girls had a falling out? I noticed something was off" with the non-bully parents.

Think tactically.

I read the first few pages OP but no others. I wondered if you have asked the mum organising the sleepover that dd is exuded from why she has done that? And also have you asked the mums who are friends what is happening? This seems key to me.

Springwalk - I am sorry if I have upset you - this was not my intention. You are already upset about your situation and I do not want to make things worse. But I did not misquote you - I actually copied and pasted the exact words which had been written by you. You have had some very varied comments from people about your situation, but you seem to be clear on your path from here so I wish you and your daughter the best of luck.

HG Perhaps one of the most helpful aspects is to know this seems to happen alot. I should think it was hurtful losing close friends, you must be very relived your ds has made lovely new friends. I guess we too will discover who our real friends are, it is already taking shape. Wishing you and ds many happy years at your new school.

plonk I will give the teacher time to fix this, but if he can't, we may decide to do that. She has nearly 8 weeks left, so it is difficult. Thank you for your insightful message about children's mh. I won't leave it too long, but really hoping things will improve.

Jayne its a family school, everyone refers to it in that way. I believe it is very different in secondary schools when the parents have very little to do with it, but certainly our school has a huge family dynamic, with parents fully involved inside and outside school, and it is considered to be a positive thing.

Invisible The mothers (so far) have been just as lovely as normal, no icy stares or bad feeling. Just as they were before. We have had the odd chat about schools, mainly their thoughts about next schools rather than talking about ours which is already decided. On the contrary to bad feeling, I have seen all but one (the sleepover mother) and it has been fine. I haven't seen her because she often works away from home, this is not out of the ordinary.

Quartz2208 I am not being awful about the other girl! We don't know her so I can't speak for her. They moved to our area and school so that the girl could get into this particular school, they did not seem very bothered about making tons of friends as the aim was the new school, not staying at the current one. As I say we hardly know them. I saw her mother a few weeks back, and she said her dd was totally fine and couldn't wait to go to the new school. In contrast we are finding it harder to extract ourselves due to the length of time we have been there. I am not dismissing the other girl's feelings, I can only go by how she has been and her mother's experience (it is different to ours, and I wish it was just as straight forward for us)

atrocious It is not lost on me either, and thank you so much for pointing it out. I have been accused of all sorts on this thread, but the truth is I was very very careful to be sensitive, as I am always, and I gave it all a lot of thought before deciding to do anything.
I get the impression dd is fair game for bullying on this thread, if she has had the audacity to actually do well in something.

Stifledlife Do you know when I read your post, something really clicked. I don't think there is a bully in the shape of a child actually, the real bully is one hidden from view. It is the sleepover mother. She has organised a sleepover for the girls and not invited dd, she was also behind another outing that dd was not invited too. And in fact, now I think about it, it is her dd that is going on and on about league tables.

I don't see this mother very much, she has a very demanding job and she flits in and out of things. I have always liked her alot. She is very ambitious both for herself and her dc. I have always seen that as good thing, as she is so driven.

I have a bullying mother, that is influences her child to be unkind to mine. I think the rest/most of the other girls are just going along with things.

What do you do if the ringleader is a mother and not a child?

The divide and conquer idea is a brilliant one thank you.

Thelittledog sleepover mother is hard to pin down, she works long hours and is hardly at school. I would need to organise to see her, she is a smooth operator. I have no doubt she would swat it away with a vague answer and tell me she would never do such a thing.

ittakes2 you called me condescending.

I am not in the least bit condescending.

If I had been, I would be the first to acknowledge it. I may have been naive for not knowing this would happen perhaps, too honest for my own good perhaps having preferred that over lying, and maybe I haven't handled this at all well even maybe terribly. But every decision I made was from a good place. I considered all of the children, not just my own.

Spring
If it's a mother you do exactly the same, but you mustn't confront her. All that does is inflame the situation and give her oxygen to fan the flames.

If she asks why you haven't invited Bullydd over employ the Mumsnet tinkly laugh and ask her what she means (complete with head tilt).

Quietly downplay it, give the other girls experiences in common to talk about the next day, and the situation will die for lack of interest.

its a family school, everyone refers to it in that way. I believe it is very different in secondary schools when the parents have very little to do with it, but certainly our school has a huge family dynamic, with parents fully involved inside and outside school, and it is considered to be a positive thing.

I'm not sure it is positive. I think it's healthy for us to have a different social circle to our parents. It helps us learn that we are separate people to our parents, and that is a healthy dynamic.

the other girl that is leaving is not part of the same friendship group or class, and only moved here a year ago. So it has been okay for her, as she hasn't settled into proper friendships and so no one is really bothered. My dd however has been there from the start, has been key part of this small group since the year dot, and we are not finding it so easy.

I'm afraid I disagree that you are not dismissing this other child's feelings. How do you know moving mid-phase has been ok for her? How do you think it feels for her not to have settled in to any real friendships? How do you think it feels for her to sense that nobody cares about her leaving, especially when compared to your daughter's departure?

I'm afraid I feel that you're a bit uncaring about this girl's experience.