to not want traditional fairy tales used in DD's class

[Blankiefan]

P1 5yo DD's class are doing a range of activities around Fairyland being lost. I don't hear any chat from dd about anything challenging gender norms. For example, she tells me they are making a castle for sleeping beauty this week so the handsome Prince can come and wake her up. Obviously I've discussed the consent issue with her. This seemed to be new news...

AIBU in wanting a chat with her teacher to check on the truth and encouraging some challenge... or will I be "that parent"?

I agree that introducing concepts such as consent early in everyday life is a good idea and that it is important to empower little girls to be more than passive "pretty princesses" who need saving. I love frozen for this exact reason!

I saw something a few weeks ago about how when a dad saw his daughter dressed as a princess he asked her how she ruled her kingdom (comprised of stuffed toys) and used it as an opportunity to gently introduce subjects such as equality. I thought this was a fantastic approach.

She will also learn about Florence nightingale, the fossil woman (can't remember her name) and other women of influence, my mil got my dd Good night stories for rebel girls... there are plenty of books you can get which will counterbalance the fairytale stories of yore...so ghat dd knows that despite wanting to be a YouTuber at the moment (🤦‍♀️) she can also become a scientist (always buying her science kits) or whatever, like I'm teaching my son that's it quite alright for him to be a superhero (he's 5) or a hairdresser...I'm more upset dd has RE lessons to be honest, so I give my own take on it (they are fairytales too, but ones that people believe in)

I - and the majority of my generation - were brought up on the old fairy tales, the original Disneys, nursery rhymes, Janet and John, and all those magazines telling us we had to be beautiful to be loved (courtesy of the beauty business and its shareholders...).

We grew up to be the second wave of feminists, after the Pankhursts et al.

All the 'antidote' reading some posters are recommending on here formed the alternative basis for the next generation of women growing up.

Look what happened. I despaired hugely at that next generation's attitude towards feminism - they thought it wasn't necessary any more and that we were all being too strident, too emphatic, and just generally too boring going on about feminism and picking up on people for discounting women.

There's a bit of a return now and has been for a while - but I still don't see the (?aggressive) strength in refusing to be put back into 'our place' that I saw during the late Sixties/early Seventies.

So it can't all be down to the childhood literature - was any of it?

Fairy tales stir up the children's imaginations and children love to dress up and act. Think how popular pantomimes are. They are the start to many a good writer and actor's careers.

I haven’t read the full thread but for what it’s worth I actually agree with you OP and am shocked at the reaction you’ve had from a lot on here. There has been a lot of feminist literary criticism done on fairy tales (Angela Carter for example). YANBU from me

The use of traditional tales is not of castles and princess!!! It’s to engage the children the skill they need at the end of that academic year is to be able to recite traditional tales , to be able to use sentence openers and connectives , and to reflect tales on their own knowledge and understanding of the world . Fairly takes are traditional story’s , told in all languages so each to specialise to all teaching groups . So yes you are being that parent

Not sure if this has been mentioned already but the world has gone a little mad! ... www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/e09fc3c8-c4f8-4877-b598-309a04df37f6

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it. myowntale.com has some fun "traditional" fairy tales but personalized for little ones. A nice balance of old tales with no gender bias.

I don't find any of the Disney princesses problematic either, to be fair. Even in the older films. Anyone who can get mice to make them a dress and woodland animals to do the cleaning is utterly brilliant, AFAIC.

You are overreacting and, to an extent, virtue signalling your ‘woke’ related ideas. Of course, in real life, things have moved on in gender relations and you would not want your DD thinking women are passive and toys for men in the long run.

But, the DD is only five and it is a story. Put it in context for her and tell her things are different for women now.

You can’t rewrite history. You can’t rewrite a story. You can’t apologise for what others did in the past.

But you can ensure that in future your DD reads widely, has a good, broad education, has a rational, sceptical, evidenced view of life, has self knowledge, understands bias and objectivity and thinks for herself.

It's a story!
Fairy tales dont determine who you are, family values and social influences will though

Seriously?? She's 5. It's a fairytale. Get a grip!

When I first read the OP my initial thoughts were "get a grip". I then asked 18 year old DD what she thought and she agrees with the OP. I then pointed out to her that she was brought up on all the traditional fairy tales (I read to her a lot when she was little), and it didn't turn her into a princess girl who liked fairies and played with dolls. Far from it. She holds pretty strong feminist views, is her own person who isn't an attention seeking narcissist who poses with trout pouts on social media, and will be doing a STEM degree in September.

So my last thought actually is "get a grip" because these fairy stories at age 5 won't prevent them from growing up to be feminists.

Then tell her the original ones...
Sleeping Beauty is raped
The Little Mermaid kills herself when the princes falls in love with someone else
Cinderella’s sisters cut parts of their feet off to fit in the slipper
Red Riding Hood cuts herself out of the wolf
Beauty and the Beast find out they are cousins but still marry
Rapunzel the prince visits her daily, she gets pregnant, the witch blinds him by pushing him into rose bushes
Snow White while in her coma is beaten and that’s what moves the apple

morgan yup...nothing wrong with telling 5 year olds tales of the imprisonment, rape, beating and suicide of women is there? Coz you know...fairy tales gotta be fine...yeah.

I think the prize for the stupidest post on this thread goes to...drumroll......

chamchick26 for
Fairy tales dont determine who you are, family values and social influences will though

Its a very special kind of stupid to have accepted that social influence is a thing, but not to have noticed the the first stories we tell children over and over at bedtime will be a massive contributing factor in the social influence they experience.

Actually I'm sort of please in a selfish way that so many people don't see the problem in teaching their DD's to be passive victims, through the exposure to endless princess tales. It means there will be much better access to high paid jobs for my own DD in 15 years time.

So do please keep at it!

pop you're not so bad yourself

I'm really surprised how small the feminist voice is on this thread.

I'm sort of please in a selfish way that so many people don't see the problem in teaching their DD's to be passive victims, through the exposure to endless princess tales

Personally, , I think the award for stupidest post goes to this one.

You are already that parent.
She is 5, let her be a kid.
I think this kind of parenting confuses kids. Let them make their own decisions re gender etc. You can help guide them when the time is right. That is NOT at 5 years old unless being led by the child. Leave well alone or do more harm. I would be pissed if my 5 year old son came home upset and confused because your kid told him Prince Charming used to be a girl.

Morgankitten is right. In the original story, the prince raped Sleeping Beauty and left. She didn’t wake up until she gave birth to twins, and one of them, trying to root for her nipple, sucked the drop of cursed blood from her finger. That’s when she woke.
The Victorians were understandably horrified at telling such stories to children, so they sanitised a lot of the original gruesome tales to the versions we know today.
I told my kids all the traditional tales as they’re part of our cultural heritage, but I raised them as feminists and explained the issues in the tales when they were old enough to understand.

I wouldn’t go into school about it! I would talk to my child about it though and do. I have two sons and we’ve discussed sexism in stories.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with talking about consent in ‘Sleeping Beauty’. You shouldn’t kiss a randomly sleeping stranger. Fairy tales are brilliant stories but they are weird.

Jesus Christ! I’ve just read about the rape bit - I didn’t know about that!

"I grew up reading fairytales and I'm a staunch feminist with a STEM degree and the CEO of a multinational corporation" could be applied to literally anything, though.

Presumably the fact that staunch feminists with STEM degrees that lead multinational corporations exist means nothing is wrong with society and everything is just fine then?

Next time somebody complains about the patriarchy and how much more difficult life is for our daughters, I'll just trot that one out.

Presumably the fact that staunch feminists with STEM degrees that lead multinational corporations exist means nothing is wrong with society and everything is just fine then?

No, it simply means that there far more important factors in raising strong independent daughters. I'm surprised more people can't seem to grasp that.

No, it simply means that there far more important factors in raising strong independent daughters. I'm surprised more people can't seem to grasp that

I don't think a single person has said this is the most important factor.