Not going to nephew's holy communion

[ILCTM]

We've been invited to my nephew's Holy Communion in a couple of weeks time - he's 7. It's my husband's sister's son and my husband says he doesn't want to go.

She's an Anglican Christian but it's being done in a Catholic church that her mum attends.

My husband was christened as a baby and attended church every Sunday, and he really resents it. He says that it should be up to the child to decide if they want to be part of any religion. He is an atheist and doesn't feel that anyone should be christened until they decide that they want to be, which I totally get.

I'm also not religious at all. The only people going to my nephew's Holy Communion are his mum (obviously) and his nan and grandad (who attend the church where he's being christened).

My husband's mum has said that he should respect the fact that it's his sister's choice to have her child christened and to receive holy communion and that he should go, but he says that he does respect her choice, but he says that she should respect his choice not to go as he doesn't agree with it.

My husband is very black and white, there is no in between. Is it unreasonable to not go? I do feel a bit bad, but then I'm not as black and white as him.

That was what eventually happened after they were given the chance. Weirdly they were cool about their adult children turning up to family events including anything with a religious aspect.

@JessieMcJessie

No one laughs off the Eucharist with cake. The Body and Blood of Christ is the most sacred part of our mass and people have died defending it. You made it sound very 'Walking Dead' but Catholics aren't cannibals (a common slur used since Roman Pagans).

To the point in question, as a Catholic, I would happily go to a different religious ceremony e.g. Bar Mitzvah, Amrit Sanskar (probably find it very interesting!) to show love to the choices and wishes of a family/friend member even if I didn't believe in it myself.

Then people in question wanted to come for the party but not the religious ceremony. Which is CF territory.

We actively encouraged family and friends to do this for DS's baptism and I was surprised that very few did. The last thing I wanted was to make anyone feel uncomfortable, and our church does baptism in the regular Sunday service so we were already surrounded by a congregation who knew us and for whom the ceremony was meaningful. I couldn't see what having people who didn't believe sitting there either uncomfortable or bored would add. I was a bit annoyed because I think my dad put pressure on my brother to attend the ceremony (none of my family are believers at all; my brother and I weren't christened though I've been baptised as an adult) which I really didn't want him to do.

Your husband's definitely not an arsehole and you're being considerate. I'm not religious and one of the things I really object to is parents foisting their belief systems on to kids. So while I might be close to and care about someone who's christening their child, I'd be a hypocrite to attend a religious ceremony that goes against my beliefs (or lack thereof) and principles. I think he's doing the right thing.

I'm not religious and one of the things I really object to is parents foisting their belief systems on to kids

As I said I have no issue with people not attending christenings (or any other religious ceremonies) if they don't want to, but all parents 'foist their beliefs on their children' and you're kidding yourself if you think you don't.

I have a very religious family, combination of Jewish, Catholic and CofE but my parents stopped believing and I was raised as an Atheist. Despite the fact neither of my parents believe, we still attended family communions, Christenings and Bar Mitzvah’s. I guess in the same way people attend religious weddings without being religious themselves, I did that too.

I think your husband is being selfish and making it all about him.

It was Oblomov19, who clearly is Catholic or Anglican, who brought up the cake, not me.

Thanks you for clarifying that Catholics are not cannibals. My staunch atheism was based entirely around the misconception that being Christian required the regular consumption of actual human flesh. I might reconsider now.

Maybe try to not be so judgmental just because your culture is more black and white about things.

Oh the irony in that statement!

Here's the value it adds- family event, drama avoided.

Oh, right. I can continue to meet family and friends for non religious events though, right?

Drama in my life is avoided by avoiding dramatic 'well don't bother coming then' type people. Not by joining in with every last event, even if I'm personally uncomfortable with it.

@JessieMcJessie

Excellent. That's good to hear. Spreading the good news as always.

Oh and it's not stories.... We do believe that we consume the body and blood of Christ. We're just not cannibals.

“but all parents 'foist their beliefs on their children' and you're kidding yourself if you think you don't.”

Yes. I insisted my children go to all the atheist services and ceremonies even the ones that weren’t actually unholy days of obligation.

I personally wouldn’t go to any religious celebration that involved indoctrinating a child, so like your husband I would be staying at home.

^^^ This

Yes. I insisted my children go to all the atheist services and ceremonies even the ones that weren’t actually unholy days of obligation.

I sometimes say that one of the reasons for my raising my children in my religion is I wanted them to have a religion to lapse from and not be seeking or intrigued by religion when they were older. It wasn't really a reason - it was a more considered decision than that but if it was a reason, it worked beautifully.

@thecatsthecats , I think we are at crossed purposes and I think I am responsible for that by not explaining myself clearly. In my particular case, the CF lobbied hard to be invited to the event and then made a tremendous fuss when I explained the event included going to the baptism. Their own grown up children were invited and came without any fuss. They sat patiently through the baptism and just got stuck in with the family stuff. The CF, however, made such a big deal it was a bit embarrassing.
They had prior form at non-religious family events for similar.
I come from a multi faith/no faith family and we just rub along with each other and enjoy any excuse for a family party be it for a faith reason or not. For the previous generation tbe whole thing got pretty nasty and my generation and the next has worked hard, by contrast, to make a virtue out of not giving a shit and supporting other family members . Making a big deal out of it is seen, in our family, as bloody rude.

Yes. I insisted my children go to all the atheist services and ceremonies even the ones that weren’t actually unholy days of obligation.

Come on, Bertrand, you may not have made them go to ceremonies but you introduced them to ideas (religious and otherwise) in ways that made it clear what you approved of and what you didn't. I'm 'indoctrinating' my child in religion to the same extent as I'm indoctrinating him into feminism, vegetarianism and the music of David Bowie, ie they are all things that we practice and approve of in our house but which he can make his own mind up about later.

You're too clever to think that you raised your children neutrally, or indeed to think that any such thing exists.

I’m with your DH. I wouldn’t go. I went to a christening once and felt unbelievably uncomfortable. Strangely I don’t care so much about attending the crib service at Xmas which DD1 loves. Probably because it’s a singsong with a story only.

I’m not religious. My children are told that i don’t believe any of it - though there are some nice stories - and they can believe if they wish. They get taught about Christianity at school, and I teach them the challenging questions to ask before blindly accepting what they’re told. It’s brilliant because it’s teaching them critical reasoning skills.

“.You're too clever to think that you raised your children neutrally, or indeed to think that any such thing exists.”
Of course. But I did not “foist my beliefs” on them. I may have played Paul Simon and Bach Cantatas, but they weren’t forced to listen to them.......

They were until a certain age, surely? If you played them in the car or the kitchen, they had to listen. DS has to go to church at the moment because DH and I choose everywhere that he goes at the moment. When that changes, he will no longer have to go to church if he doesn't want to. I imagine it'll be about the same age as I stop indoctrinating him into heritage by 'forcing' him to go to National Trust properties.

In your view, is the only acceptable position that DH and I stop being religious and stop practicing our religion? I can't see how people with faith can raise a child without 'indoctrinating' them by your definition.

I have never met an atheist, myself included, who didn’t repeat over and over again to their children that ultimately the child gets to make their own decision about belief. I don’t mince words about my personal beliefs, and they are strongly held, but always point out that many disagree with me and offer to help my child explore those beliefs in an age appropriate way if she ever desires. I have yet to meet a religious parent who goes out of their way to undercut teaching their own beliefs to their child.

In our family, we skip the religious ceremony for the child, but go to the party afterwards. I personally think that if we skip the meaningful part, we shouldn’t get cake, but our religious family made it clear they want us at the party so we go to be polite.

I'm 'indoctrinating' my child in religion to the same extent as I'm indoctrinating him into feminism, vegetarianism and the music of David Bowie, ie they are all things that we practice and approve of in our house but which he can make his own mind up about later.

Hi newaccount,

But presumably this "indoctrination" does not involve taking him each week to the local feminist meet-up group, requiring him to join the David Bowie fan club, or expecting him to be able to explain the various ethical bases for vegetarianism!

I have met lots of people - I'm friends with some of them - who make it clear exactly how risible they'd find it if their child 'believed in sky fairies'. They might say they're child is able to find their own way with no interference, but a lot of them are kidding themselves. My own family made it clear that my baptism made them feel quite uncomfortable and that's fine - I understand they find it difficult that my beliefs are so different to theirs - but it would be a bit much for them to therefore say that they raised me without giving me a bit of a nudge either way re religion.

Very few of the religious people I know with grown-up children have children who believe as devoutly as their parents, or at all (the indoctrination isn't all that effective!), and most are at peace with that. Those that aren't are controlling in other ways, too. Not all religious people are frothing fundamentalists and not all atheists are bastions of tolerance and rationality.

But presumably this "indoctrination" does not involve taking him each week to the local feminist meet-up group, requiring him to join the David Bowie fan club, or expecting him to be able to explain the various ethical bases for vegetarianism!

Again, he goes where I choose at the moment. If his dad and I both went together every week to a feminist meet up then he would indeed have to come to. I took him to labour meetings for the same reason - is that ok? I have no intention of forcing him to be confirmed or to go to church once he's old enough to stay home - until then he'll have to spend one hour a week doing an activity that his father and I enjoy and want to do together. I don't think that's a terrible unusual or onerous demand as part of a family.

Again, how do you think people of faith should be raising their children? Should I give up going to church until he's old enough to be left at home? Or is it that I shouldn't have had a baby while being religious at all?

Do people really think that their ethos/values/beliefs only trickle down to their children if they make them attend a club for those beliefs? How weird.

“Do people really think that their ethos/values/beliefs only trickle down to their children if they make them attend a club for those beliefs? How weird.”

No. Nobody thinks that. HTH.

Not all religious people are frothing fundamentalists and not all atheists are bastions of tolerance and rationality.

^ I agree. This thread has clearly demonstrated that.