Reporting my 17 son to the police for theft

[PurpleMagnolia]

I really want to hear from other parents who have experience of police involvement with their teens. I feel like we are at the end of the line with him and we are seriously considering bringing charges against him ourselves. He has been stealing from us in ever greater amounts from 10 onwards, can be very threatening and abusive when challenged, has tried to push his stepfather around if he 'dares' to get involved, has thrown things at me, is extremely intelligent, bullying and manipulative. He has every kind of support, I quit my job to try to love him and support him through his GCSE's he got 3 C's and a B, slept through most of them but had target grades of straight 8's. He is unbelievably lazy and disgusting, bottles of wee under the bed, room fully of rotting food, backpack like an actual compost bin rotting down in there. Is really overweight, smokes including a little pot. We live in a house of locked doors to every room, steals food all the time, lifetime of stealing other kids toys, sisters lego, money etc. Was just trying to survive until he leaves home and edge him through his college course in the hope that he could get a job and leave, which he is in danger of being thrown out of. He lies about absolutely everything and often has carefully constructed stories he builds up over time to put me of off the scent of what he is doing. His small group of friends are vile, nasty characters. He has always had consequences for his actions, paying money back etc. He has had all his xbox etc confiscated over the years and in the last year has no access to lounge (he nicks videos and sells them), no phone contract, no wifi, not even a door on his room. End of a long road of consequences. He has been to CAMHS, private counselors, Early Intervention youth services, family counseling. He has swallowed our life up trying to work out how to help him. BUT just recently I got a text from another trusted parent, telling me he has stolen over 200 pounds and another time been caught with her wallet in his bag. She had a serious talk with him, but didn't tell me, then the final straw was him stealing £900 worth of graphics card and memory from her daughters computer to sell on. We managed to get it back from the other little a%^&ole he sold it to, found he has tools in his bag for the job. She even told me that she had a warning from another Mum that he has stolen from her too. He is totally unrepentant and is really gloating about the fact that his mate had to give up the computer gear, and he got to keep the money. I don't given him money, both my kids (sister is a sweet hard working kind soul) earn their pocket money, but he can't be arsed. Somehow always has cash, I suspect through more stealing. ANYHOO, it's been a month since I got the text, he hasn't done and single job here (lawn mowing etc) to earn a penny and says he is 'looking into' getting a job. Totally unrepentant and I have given him 2 weeks to pay her back something decent (he owes her £265) or I will press charges. I have already called the cops on him for stealing my phone and threatening me, and they were amazing, said they would keep him in till late at night without pressing charges to try and teach him a lesson. Has no effect. What I really want to is to hear from other parents who have been devoted stable parents who have taken ever possible step and ended up with an amoral monster and what on earth they have done! Stepfather has been in his life since he was three, always supported him been great husband and dad. Bio Dad was total bastard as well, no hoper, nasty and selfish and died a few years ago. All this started well before his Dad passed however. I can't talk about to most people because they always say stuff like 'I wouldn't let him get away with that'. What can you do when is he massively tall and 24 stone! We have no conequences left and I am afraid he has found some new friends to steal from their parents. I had to text round all the ones I new to tell them to protect then from people robbed! I have been through the crying, the depression, the hysterical grief, the horror, have read a million books on how to raise boys, challenging sons, strong willed children, confident boys ad nauseum. Nothing! Sorry for the long rant but I just don't feel he should be allowed to get away with it and pick up some new victims. Help!

I’m shocked that CAMHS gave that advice about his bedroom door. Though having heard some other horror stories about them, perhaps not as shocked as I should be. Pretty sure that would fall into the category of degrading punishment. I know he is showing no respect for you or others but the moment sanctions are dished out which show no respect, you’re on a hiding to nothing

I honestly think this nightmare situation is beyond what you can deal with. And tough as it sounds, if he gets a criminal record, he has to deal with the consequences. It won’t ruin his life. Yes it will change the course of it to a degree, there will be some choices no longer available to him but maybe that’s the wake up call he needs. I’m amazed no one has reported him for what he’s already done, so it’s only a matter of time.

He is 6 ft 7-8, so even 24 stone doesn't look that massive on him. If he does decide to be a criminal, he's going to be really easy to spot. He's already known to the police and is probably the tallest person in our town. I kept talking to CAMHS about my thinking he might have anti social personality disorder, but they just seemed to brush over it. Once he revealed himself and the con was blown, he wouldn't go. :-( OneMore how on earth did they manage to get the diagnosis of a personality disorder? It always felt they were reluctant to do anything but chat about family issues. Never a full assessment of any kind. No medication, been to doctor, tried to get help for binge eating, but he's not interested. He does like our cute little dog, but refuses to take him for a walk or anything. He never got into trouble for being violent except for once or twice, and considering he was a head taller than everyone else his whole life never used that to bully. He just never had many friends because I think he always wanted to be in charge and is very selfish. He wants he takes. That's basically it. Any problems it's someone else fault. Thanks so much for all the thoughts. It really helps to hear other peoples voices. Especially people that have had this stuff in their lives. xx

The door is degrading in isolation, but it's at the very bitter end of a long list of consequences and he can earn it back by removing the rotting food and tidying his room. We were advised in the face of his behavior to reduce back to basics. Food, clothes and shelter. No privileges - wifi, xbox, tv etc. He has the option to earn money here all the time. Lots of garden jobs, windows cleaning, lawn mowing, but won't lift a finger. He even had the option of getting half of his jobs money to pay us back and half to spend, which I thought was really bloody reasonable! God, it helps just to spew all this out.

I think you need to kick him out to be honest. You've done all you can and living in this home made prison is no way for the rest of your family to live..

You sound like an amazing Mum who's tried everything you possibly can. I think you've got to kick him out and let him get on with it. It'll be difficult, but that might just get through to him.

It's one of those situations where if you keep doing the same thing, he'll behave in the same way.

I would ask the friends he's stolen from to report him to the police. You can keep out of it that way. The police know him; they will believe your friends.

I don't think it's fair on your daughter that she should have to live like that. Your son is creating his own problems; she is suffering so much as a result (never mind you and your husband.)

It's time to do something about it now otherwise you'll be here in 10 years' time. Phone the women up, ask them to report it. When he's at the police station, call the police and say you're not prepared to have him back at home.

I'm so sorry for you all; you must be beside yourselves with stress.

Have you looked at pathological demand avoidance? My eldest son was not unlike what you describe. He has recently been diagnosed. Also after years of camhs etc who all said he was a "complex case".
It is a form of autism which explains the not getting consequences.
However we ended up putting him out before he was 18. He was violent as well and I had young children. He was in supported living (social services) and then got a council flat. It did help him as it reduced his anxiety and the behaviour driven by the anxiety.

Purple in my cousins case it came to a crisis with drugs and self-harming and he was hospitalised for a time and diagnosed then with borderline personality disorder. It doesn't sound the same as your son though, apart from the stealing and self-absorption, I'm not suggesting that's what it is.

The other thing to think about OP is if you say that he has to leave your home now DS will have to help house him. If you wait til he's18 then he'llbe truly on his own. SS may well tell you that you "must house him" but actually this is not true.

A lot of what you describe reminds me of my own childhood w my brother. It'sno way for you or your dd to live. As an parent I do see why my parents felt they had to keep tryi g but the reality was it didn't help him and it destroyed our family.

Cahms are useless in my experience. Wanted me to sit in a room and basically justify 6 years of my divorce to a child. Would have done more damage than good.

I would say you are done OP it’s awful but there is only so much you can do.

That combined with the total utter lack of remorse, guilt, anything, he didn't even break a sweat when we confronted him about the stealing. Confident and relaxed

This is my fil. I’m sure he is a sociopath.

PDA type behaviours exhibit as an excessive need to control one’s environment. Which is what your ds is doing in an extreme form... he wants something, he takes it. There may be deep anxiety there; there’s certainly a lack of resilience, because most people are able to cope with the demands of day to day life - ie, you want something, you have to push yourself out of your comfort zone to achieve it, whether that’s passing an exam or going out to work.

Bottom line is though, whether he has a ‘label’ or not, your ds has to function in the real world and if he can’t build some resilience and personal responsibility then he’s going to suffer harsher consequences in the future than he has so far. It’s like the old saying ‘cruel to be kind’ or ‘tough love’
Every time he steals, or does something else illegal/cruel/unkind, and doesn’t get any kind of consequence which really reaches him, it’s reinforcing the undesirable behaviour. He may even be ‘scared’ to change because it’s going to take him out of his comfort zone. If he complies, and mows the lawn, tidies his room, what next? Will he feel pressure to lose weight/go to college/ stop smoking/ get a job? Of course all those things are desirable- but to someone with zero resilience and deep unhappiness, they perhaps seem scary.

Sorry, maybe I’ll rambling here, I don’t think there is much I can say that can really help other than that I feel for you, it must be horrible and for everyone’s sakes you need to be the ones to effect some sort of change because he won’t. Perhaps asking the friend to report to the police is easier than doing it yourselves because at least it’s a step removed and may make it harder for him to blame you. But something needs to happen, and even if you feel it’s going to make things harder in the short term, I really believe that in the long term you’ll see it as the right decision

Just want to say you sound like you are an amazing mom. Honestly it sounds like you have tried absolutely everything you can possibly try. I'd put up with him until he was 18 and then kick him out. You owe yourself , your dh and your dd your own lives too.

Onemore, I wondered if it has to be some massive breakdown before 'they' will get that involved with a really complex diagnosis. He spent ages a while ago threatening suicide, but he has given up on that now. I worked out in the end that he was using it to control me. Keep everyone in help mode rather than consequences mode.
Madwoman I've looked at PDA, and in many ways it seemed to fit, but all the early years descriptions don't match at all, he is incredibly smart, not at all passive and not delayed in his milestone, was a ridiculously early talker and reader off his own bat. However the incredible lengths he will go to avoid normal demands are truly mind boggling. But other times, in the past anyway, he has been fine at doing things. He has had patches of working really hard at school and doing exceptionally well. It's just that he then gets caught stealing again, has to suffer conequences and we go back into the loop. I know he definately feels there is no point doing the right thing, becasue there will always be more he has to do after that as you say, lose weight, get a job, all the things that being an adult requires. It's endless. Thanks for the insight Madwoman, I hadn't though about the fact that they would help before he's 18, so he has a 9 month buffer to sort himself out before his birthday.

Police. Disown him. Kick him out. Change the locks.

You have done so much to help him OP. Truly there is nothing more you could have done.

This awful ex, his father who is no longer in the picture - you learned how to be loved and helped by your partner, DS has not learned to accept love and help. He is well aware his behaviour is challenging, but sees this as a way of separating from you.

If DS can take in your support and help, and be more helpful and supportive back, he will have a more secure base to move out into the world from. Just ask him - does he want your help or not? I would also get a counselling psychotherapist or psychologist for yourself OP.

It is about questions of value and self-worth, identity and gaining validation. I would not be surprised if there is resentment on both sides. Interesting that he steals from friends - he enjoys charming them then uses this to his advantage. He will know he is big and intimidating and uses this to his advantage. This doesn't lead to satisfactory relationships though, so he goes in the opposite direction - not taking care of himself, hanging out with bad friends.
Do you want this sickbed relationship, fannying around after him, being repulsed? It has become an isolating situation. You are trying to stay positive when you are already resentful and one step from blaming him.

Hi Purple this sounds so distressing for you and it's clear that you're completely at the end of your tether (and who wouldn't be, having to turn their house into a maximum security prison!)

I have no good advice to add, but your situation reminds me of a book I read called 'And I don't want to live this life', it was written by the mother of Nancy Spungeon (Sid Vicious' girlfriend). Your son sounds exactly like Nancy. She came from a good, solid, family, but even from being a toddler she was cruel, vindictive and completely remorseless. She was also a very early talker; intelligent and manipulative. Her mother had to lock the other children in their bedrooms at night so Nancy couldn't go in and hurt them. They tried everything with her, she was seeing a psychologist from being 5 years old, was sent to a specialised boarding school from 12, and the book is really an insight into what a terrible toll this took on the family.

I hope that's not inappropriate, I just thought it might help for you to hear about others who have been in your situation.

All your duty as a parent is OP is that you do your best to send your child into the world not doing harm to themselves or others. To that end I would keep it really simple. Follow through with the police and get them to make a referral to social services. Take him back to the GP about the binge eating and see if you can get a psychological assessment. Get him out of your home and into semi-independent supported accommodation. If that isn’t available then you have no choice but to take the risk with hostels.

Agree with Funday’s point about keeping it simple. It’s hard because when you know your child is bright and capable you can’t help but feel aspirations for them. However tough it is, you need to try to let go of any any expectations other than the absolute basics. He needs to stop treating others badly. That’s first. Ideally he’ll stop treating himself badly too, but you can’t guarantee that and in a way you might find it strangely liberating to let go and acknowledge that this is his chosen path. Even if he does get a diagnosis and a label, unless he actually certifiably has diminished responsibility (and he sounds a long way from that; on the contrary he sounds quite calculating and manipulative) these won’t excuse his actions. He is almost legally an adult and well over the age of criminal responsibility. He cannot just carry on treating everyone around him like utter shit. This must be so so hard on you all; I feel you have everyone’s sympathy here. But time for action. Can you get some of your friends on board? The ones he has stolen from or treated badly? It sounds as though because you’re ashamed of the situation you’ve dealt with it by having ‘behind the scenes’ conversations and quietly tried to warn people. But maybe that’s giving him a ‘wall’ to hide behind. Maybe if he can see that you’re no longer to own the embarrassment and awkwardness, but are going to front it out and openly tell your friends you think they should report him, maybe that will be better in the long run. It’s almost like he’s playing on your feelings of helplessness and isolation, so to counter that he needs to see you openly take control and say ‘no, this is not my doing, this is your doing and now you’ve got to face up to it’

I’d kick him out, but I’d be very worried that he’d go to a friend’s house where the cycle would continue and you’d end up with friends’ parents dealing with him. I think, tho, that you’ve run out of options so you’re going to have to throw him out. He’s chosen this despite the multiple opportunities given to him.

He doesn’t have to be 18 for you to throw him out and if he’s subsequently arrested, even if he gives your address to be bailed to, you can refuse.

Oh my fuckin' god Purple you need to get him out now before he ends up killing one of you. You have done everything you can. You cannot reason with evil and unfortunately some people are - much as we can't fathom how.

It's only a month ago that I got the text telling me he has stolen off others. This is why its all come to a head. I was hoping to support him to stay in college and get him to leave in May next year when he finishes his course, at just over 18 years old. He wants to move out with his other dropkick mate, they had pipe dreams about buying a flat, and since they get their deposit back (!!!) , that would all be very easy. I've spoken to him about how mortgages work, credit ratings, done a flatting budget for him on a minimum wage full time job, explained about how tricky it will be to get a flat if he has no credit rating, how to build up a credit rating, etc,etc. He won't go to a friends house as I have warned them all not to have him in the house and why. I can't do anything about any new friends he may be making. I suspect he has been pinching cash all over the show as he always has money. He stands to inherit some money from his Dad at 18, which is a disaster as he has been borrowing against it from all his mates I think and will probably just live of it until it runs out. He even has two sims in his phone, which so dodgy! :-( He won't go to GP, CAMHS, counseling or anything at all. He has definately been playing me like a mug for ages, trying to be a good Mum, firm but fair and funny etc etc. But the horror of hearing what he did to this lovely lady who was so gorgeous to him. That's the killer of it. He can be looking you in the eye, holding your hand and telling you that terrible phase is over now, he loves you, hugs you and nicks money out of your purse the same day. Crunch time.

I love how all the "no way would I ever report him!!" Brigade don't actually offer any alternative solutions.

Op I think you've done everything humanly possible. Maybe it is for the best that the other parent does in fact report him. Fine he might get a record (I don't know how it all works) but surely he's going to end up with one anyway at this rate?

I should add I knew a kid like him once. He ended up owing his dealers money - they came to his house and threatened to rape his little sister. They then took her pet hamster and rammed a pencil through it. Wish i was making it up. He paid up, but his poor mum had to throw him out, for the safety of the family.

Also I recognise some of the things you describe in DB - he has ASD / PDA traits for sure

Normal child, A's in GCSE's. Could be lovely but had a bullying streak. Always with a hidden side. Actually thought he hated me in my teens. He punched me in the face when he was 17 (I was 14).

He would not function in a 'job' but would be okay working for himself (he used to).

Have a look here op:

www.pdasociety.org.uk/resources/extreme-demand-avoidance-questionnaire

www.pdasociety.org.uk/adult-life/Life-with-PDA/managing-life