Aibu to be annoyed by hospital visitors.

[MRSMARMITE3]

Had a baby two days ago and still here. Partners/named visitors are allowed 9-9 others 3-7. Lady in same ward had partner here till 10:30 last night and they came back at 6am today . I wouldn't mind but they don't shut up and I was trying to take a nap after getting baby to sleep. The midwife even said "oooh your back early" but didn't tell them to bog off. What's the point of having visiting hours!

The solution is more staff and an end to these stupid wards from the 1960s, not more people and random men crammed into a too-small space.

Fathers are not visitors. They are parents who should be at the hospital attending to their newborn child for the entire duration.

Of course fathers are visitors. Unlike the mother and baby they aren't patients, therefore by definition they are visitors. They have extended visiting rights by virtue of being the father. The other women on the ward are entitled to peace and quiet to recover and this (should) trump fathers' desire (not right) to attend "to their newborn child for the entire duration".

Purpleartichoke - exactly!
I cant believe someone upthread said men in maternity wards is 'misogynistic'.
What about the attitude that women should cope alone hours after a horrific labour and their partners should just pop in as they see fit during visitors hours!?
Labour and the suffering experienced afterwards varies tremendously from woman to woman. My dh stayed with me for 3 nights of absolute hell. He had to sleep in a chair by the bed but neither of slept as DS just screamed over night and when he did sleep, you could guarantee another baby of the 4 in the room would be screaming. Due to sleeping in a chair for 3 nights and being continuously on his feet, blood collected in his ankles and they swelled to 3 times the size so then had to be treated by the hospital. The one time he did leave me, a nurse asked me why i was buzzing for her to pass me my crying baby, because I couldn't bloody move that's why! I was in agony.
The whole process is severely misogynistic but that has nothing to do with partners being allowed to stay with their wives, and has everything to do with mothers being expected to suffer with little sympathy, no privacy and understaffed hospitals. Wouldn't happen if men had to give birth!

NaturatintGoldenChestnut What you said is 100% spot on.
I had a hideous experience on postnatal ward with DC1, as a direct result I chose to have DC2 at home. DC3 is expected late summer/early autumn and depending on whether my placenta moves, he/she may have to make their exit via csection. It’s not the major abdominal surgery, or the painful recovery or any of that stuff that has me terrified - it’s the fact that I’ll have to stay on a postnatal ward again, at least until I can feel my legs/pee without a catheter and can discharge myself
The fact that I feel that way is proof that something has to change in the way women are currently cared for postnatally.

What about the attitude that women should cope alone hours after a horrific labour and their partners should just pop in as they see fit during visitors hours!?

They shouldn't cope alone. There should be sufficient staff on the wards to help with the mothers and babies.

Nanny - but there isn't. And if they can't staff them properly they need to allow partners in to help. A newborn needs picking up constantly, feeding, winding, changing, sometimes just walking around if they can't settle. If a mother isn't able to do that, it is understandable that she will want/need family support.
It's just not realistic to have to buzz for a nurse everytime you need to pick a baby up.

Twistin
Can i just say as a senior midwife trained in baby checks ( and many other advanced roles)
We have the same issue as you
Low staffing, need to prioritise work loads and all the other unseen things that need addressing on each shift
A thorough check takes time and if I'm doing upwards of 10 a day as well as mums PN checks, the mother and baby discharges and then electronically inputting mountains of paperwork (legal documentation)as well as try to support infant feeding...maybe just maybe those midwives were trying to do the job they were trained for giving post natal care

The indisputable fact fact is Midwives have undertaken many jobs initially done by doctors.. since reduction in junior doctors hours
And before anybody suggest this is a rant against doctors or anybody else it's not it's just fact when all of this was brought in nobody consider the impact it would have on Midwives being able to give good postnatal care

I personally think that the more care that we took on such as suturing baby checks transional care etc are a good way of giving continuity of care, howver you need the increasing staffing to balance out

the reality is very few mothers and babies stay in longer than 24 hours and those that do are those that really need medical/midwifery care that can't be given in the community setting which we all know is by far the best place for mum and baby to be if the family support is there
I saddens me to hear all the poor care I've read about in this thread... its not what i get up on the morning to do and i don't think reflects what we want to do

Midwives are leaving the service in droves because they cannot give the care they want to and whether that's a political issue or not doesn't alter the facts
I'm not here to justify midwives giving poor care as I know that the service can alter from Trust to trust and in fact hour to hour even within a good Trust but let's support each other as professionals please

@Carblover

Three children , 2 different hospitals .... the midwives in general we’re unsympathetic, unhelpful , neglectful ! That’s not a one off!!
Doctors are rushed off their feet, I’ve never yet in any of my experiences in hospital , in any capacity seen them chatting in groups, on their phones , drinking tea, reading their book.
Many band 6/7 are too busy in the office sorting every bodies time off

@sauvignon**
As i said I'm not trying to justify poor care
From any professional its totally unacceptable
Nor am i going to generalise
I am making the point that a drop in standards of care do not start at ward level
They come about because decisions are made without forward planning and and a proper infrastructure being put in place before rolling out

this has come about from successive governments and a top heavy higher level management than Band 6 or 7
Trying to run it like Sainsburys et al
The figures for a deficit in trained staff due to retiring midwives has been out there for all of my 35 year career and the answer was to reduce training places
This is not confined too the NHS but Police And all the emergency public services
You can't compare doctors with midwives or nurses or radiographers etc for that matter as everones working pattern is different
I've never said doctors don't work hard just put forward my perspective

Maybe I've missed this part but how was he getting in so early?! Don't you have to be buzzed in by the midwives? Seems unsafe for people to just walk in? Unless the midwives were buzzing him in when they know he's too early? Weird 😕

I had similar hellish experience to you! Except my baby was in ITU so wasn't even on the ward with me. In the end I got so fed up of having to sit there watching visitors coo over babies that I asked to be moved to a side room - much better!

Yanbu. I had awful experiences on the postnatal ward with my 2 c-section babies. Both times I had older dc so dh couldn't help. So I was stuck trying to look after myself and a baby while recovering from major surgery because there wasn't enough staff to make breakfast, sterilize bottles etc. I got help while I had a catheter in but afterwards it was tough luck. I remember crying my eyes out waiting for ds's bottle to finish sterilizing in the microwave because I was in agony and just wanted to be in bed.

YANBU OP!

Post-natal wards can be total hell on earth!

I hope that you have escaped by now...if not, is there any chance you can get a private room? even if it means paying money, it will be worth it when you look back at those first few hours/days with your baby

DC1 is now 5 and I still remember how excruciatingly awful it was on the post-natal ward, being offered just paracetamol post CS, being told by the midwife "well you've had a CS, it's going to hurt, it's not the easy option blah blah"

Next time round with DC2 I fought to get a private room and bought a supply of my own painkillers in my handbag (yes you should not do do, but I was not prepared to be left in pain for hours on end, waiting for a drugs round that happened with no regularity whatsoever!).

Bought my own ready to use bottles of formula, despite wanting to breastfeed- I just wanted to prove that baby was feeding fine and get the fuck out of there! Milk came in once I was home and things were all good from there

A totally different experience altogether

Goodness, I've broken out in a cold sweat just recalling the memories

@NaturatintGoldenChestnut

Yep, you've totally hit the nail on the head

Can't stand hospital wards at the best of times, but particularly bad post-baby when you're desperately trying to get some sleep/rest after the birth.

When I gave birth to DD2 I had to stay overnight. There was someone's partner snoring his fucking head off so loudly in the bay next to me that I complained to the midwife on duty who told him to keep it quiet.

@Carblover - I totally agree. Baby checks are time consuming and a lot of paperwork. I did loads. I have never avoided doing them on purpose. And can only go by the experiences I had where in some instances I was literally being bleeped whilst at a paediatric cardiac arrest saying I had to come and do baby checks. I said I really can't right now, is there anyone else that can do them? To then be told there were trained members of staff that day but they were too busy to do all the paperwork and really it should be our job. I am
Not saying that it is like that in every hospital, and believe me I know what it is like to be overworked and understaffed, but I know for a fact that doctors are often scapegoated as an excuse as to why someone cannot go home. But it is not like we're sat around twiddling our thumbs.

We are all up against it and I fully sympathise. But even in an adequately staffed well oiled hospital there will always be circumstances where an emergency trumps a routine discharge and blaming doctors does nothing for patient expectations and leaves them disillusioned. If we were to refuse to do a baby check on grounds that we didn't feel it was our job or that we didn't want the paperwork we would be shot and rightly so. Usually it's it because there is a genuine clinical reason why we cannot get there. At least that was the case when I did the job. I know how horrible it is to be in hospital and just want to go home.

With dc 2&3, both times i was stiched up and no further complications so said i wanted to leave, without spending a nightin having had an all too familiar experience on post natal ward after dc1.

But of course baby needed paediatric check, no doc available, so I promised to come back in the morning. this seemed to suit them - free up a bed and doctor probably less busy earlier in the day. Both times i came back, had to wait about an hour, was seen and discharged. Was worth the journey to have had the first night with baby in my own bed, decent food and home comforts.

This was at different hospitals, different trusts, so I recommend trying this tactic if possible to escape the hellishness.

@Carblover
No I am absolutely accepting this.
You are completely over looking the lack of humanity in which nearly 99 % of women are treated with when in a postnatal ward.
Where’s the kindness, the sympathy the humanity??
All front line staff in all areas in all sectors are short staffed but can remain human!
There is a coke medieval approach to women giving birth, and their care afterwards .
You will go home at the end of your shift, you will get paid, but the cold treatment women receive will stay with them forever.
And if everyone is soooooo rushed off their feet why each and every single time I had to approach a nurse did I feel like I was interrupting a casual chat, and made to feel exactly that I was doing?
How can I tell you the personal anecdotes of several nurses as they chatted openly about nights out, boyfriends . This type of behaviour wouldn’t be allowed on a shop floor never mind a hospital floor.
You know exactly what I am talking about and I am sick sore and tired of nurses/midwives blaming cuts!
It’s like a shield you use to explain your lack of care.

When my baby was ill and needed an operation his aftercare by the paediatric nurses was something I have never experienced before. These wonderful women tending to many sick children were like angles.

I’ve never received any treatment like that before, not for any of my other children or myself . Isn’t that so so sad.

*angels

And on other occasions , three times actually... it was the doctor who brought my son a drink when he was knocked down by a car and we had been ignore by the nurses , the doctor who came by after her shift to check how he and I was .
It was the doctor who when I had awful HV who brought me a blanket and new sick bowls because no nurse has came near me.
The same doctors who are runnnnning around between patients whilst the nurses are on their phones or cackling very loudly about the vodka they can’t wait to buy in Benidorm.....
I wish I wasn’t making this up.

@carblover

I think you make a lot of good points and think midwives work incredibly hard under horrid circumstances. Staffing levels are just too low, that's where a lot of the problems begin. I'd disagree that babies and mothers kept in more than 24 hrs are there because they need more care though, sometimes it just seems like there aren't enough staff to discharge - after a straightforward birth (was happily out and about with the pram within 48hrs with no discomfort) we had to really fight to go home and essentially discharged ourselves. We'd been ignored all day and were told we were being kept for breastfeeding support when we did try to leave, not that we got any. No one else on the ward had been discharged either. I was totally unprepared because I thought they were keen to send you home nowadays. Next time I'm going to insist on going home straight from the labour suite. Incidentally, am still breastfeeding 11 months on after EBF to weaning at 6m, but that's thanks to P2P support not that from the hospital.

@sauvignon**
I get you've had bad experiences and i don't condone or support poor care and unprofessional behaviour
But you are making huge sweeping generalisations about over 30.000 practicing midwives
Your personal opinions are very valid but don't tar us all
I do hope you felt empowered enough to contact the Head of midwifery and share you concerns ...i for one would have liked to have investigated such blatant unprofessional behaviour if it was in my unit

@inglenooks**
Thank you I'm in no way saying we get it right all of the time but some of the time is not good enough it needs to be most of the time
I agree its crazy to keep healthy mums and babies in for lack of discharge and says more about management than ward level.. managers need to think outside the box to support the service and its users

The term discharge is a misnomer as we are actually transferring care to the community staff which also has suffered at the cuts inflicted on services again not the service we want to give ...but thank god for the local professional and voluntary supports groups which do a fantastic job in supporting families at home
It won't come as a surprise that post natal care has long been the Cinderella part of maternity care and intra partum for many obvious reasons is where most attention is focused with Antenatal next when services are planned
But to give someone a positive pregnancy and birthing experience and fail them after is absolutely shocking and sad in equal measure
In response to the OPs original post if we can't get something as simple as visiting and visitors right we have a long way to go

Ladies can i entreat you to let your HOM know of your experiences(good and not so good) ...it doesn't matter how long after your birth as it does gives weight to applications to the CCG for funding
There are a lot of good committed professionals out there trying to make positive changes and improve services
You can be part of that as lay people and service users
Sorry for the sermon .. but it makes me angry and sad to hear of so many negative experiences at such a positive and wonderful time in a family's life to you all

Have a quiet word with the nursing staff and explain that they are disturbing you. And ask them if they could mention visiting hours to them.

I could understand somebody coming in early if they had to go to work but staying all day including outside visiting hours isn't really fair. Imagine if everyone's partner did it!

You're in the best place for checking out the baby's latching on, once that is sorted you probably don't need to be there any more.

Can you ask to speak to the ward manager about the early visiting? I don't think people should be coming onto the ward before most people are awake and I'm surprised it's happening, because the handover from night staff to day staff is quite a busy time on most wards.