To ask what Leavers are still hoping for from Brexit

[Bearbehind]

So we’ve failed twice to actually leave the EU on the dates specified which has hopefully proved that we will never leave without a deal.

Therefore the only option is to leave with a worse deal, or just give the whole thing up as a bad idea.

What do Leavers think can be salvaged from this epic mess?

Walkingdeadfangirl,

Who do you want to be PM after May? Who will be the PM that delivers the Brexit you want?

ps: I want to hear your specific names, not just "a true Brexiter" vague description.

A lot of leavers voted so because they felt they weren't being listened to.

Recent events have acted as confirmation of this.

Other than that it is about sovereignty and laws and stuff, all nicely whipped up by the local leave MP, who is quite happy to tell everyone that no one listens to them.

Would a Brexiter PM be any good? Johnson would have been a certainty to win if he'd stood against May. He didn't bother, he doesn't want to do the job right now, preferring to play cricket in summer and do God knows what in the winter. When he was made Foreign Secretary he made a complete and utter mess of the job. Then consider the money he wasted as Mayor of London - illegal water cannons which had to be sold for scrap, millions wasted on the Garden Bridge without a piece of turf being cut or a brick laid.

Leasdom - not exactly sparkled lately, has she?

Rees- Mogg - never takes a Government post, sniping from the sidelines is so much easier.

Raab - no sense of geography. Didn't realise that the French coast was only 20 miles away.

Fox - easiest trade deals in history so after three years has managed one with the Faroes....

Davis - was in the key position for a Leaver. So why didn't he get a deal? Turning up for negotiations a handful of times without any paper work was maybe not the best attempt. As the old saying goes, Failure to Prepare is to Prepare to Fail, and he illustrates that well.

Any other Leaver hopefuls, who have hidden qualities which are yet to become apparent?

Until you move into the real world, this discussion is clearly pointless

Its not a discussion, what is the point discussing anything with someone who disregards democratic votes.

Its not a discussion, what is the point discussing anything with someone who disregards democratic votes.

That’s in the top 5 Brexit bingo cliches walking

Well done.

@Walkingdeadfangirl

What is the point discussing anything with people happy to work in coalition with racists?

Are you happy for a government to work in coalition with UKIP? UKIP who are happy to work with and deferm Yaxley-Lennon.

To answer your point about ignoring democratic votes: The referendum was advisory. The U.K. parliament is sovereign. Democracy in the U.K. comes from our sovereign parliament not from referenda.

Would you be so kind as answer my point about working with racists? I know lots of leave voters are NOT racist but how do you feel about working alongside racists?

Who has disregarded a democratic vote? No one, the Government has put most of the rest of business on hold while discussing Brexit. This is even accepting that an advisory vote which was very close is binding on them, which a sensible Government wouldn't have done.

You might also like to consider that May held a GE - if she had got her majority this could have been taken as a confirmation that the country liked what she was doing. She didn't win.

What you seem to be saying Walkingdeadfangirl is that May and the Government can't read your mind and implement the sort of Leave that you personally would like, but that is not ignoring the vote. It's up to you to get active, write to your MP to say what sort of Leave you want, get active in politics and get out on the streets to start persuading people of your viewpoint.

The mind boggles when some Leavers (mostly on facebook) decided that the Queen was a traitor. It did make me wonder what they understood by the word Sovereign.

I particularly liked the concept of the Queen commiting treason.

Windowsareforcheaters
I am a Conservative but will consider voting whatever way necessary to get Brexit now. Have no opinion of Yaxley-Lennon.

Do you have any issues supporting a party led by the far left and anti Semites?

lljkk
At the moment I would probably favour Gove to deliver Brexit but need to hear them all pitch their plans before I decide. Would be happy with any of the current favourite Brexiteers.

Windowsareforcheaters
You will have to provide some proof of racism. I have no idea what you are talking about?
I dont see 'working' with UKIP MPs any different that working with the Green or the SNP.

@Walkingdeadfangirl
I am not a member of the Labour Party I have voted for them but I have voted for a number of other parties.

I totally condemn the attitude of the Labour Party towards anti semitism. I think Corbyn has not stood up to and objected to the claims on anti semitism in the way he should.

I am a Conservative but will consider voting whatever way necessary to get Brexit now

So I can assume from that you would be happy to support or work with UKIP a party that is now the 'reasonable' face of the BNP.

Brexit heralds the rise of the far right and people like you are facilitating one of the most worrying trends in British politics since the rise of the blackshirts. People failing to condemn racists like Yaxley-Lennon and working with facists is very, very scary.

I am sure all non racist leave voters would join me in being appalled at attitudes like this.

You will have to provide some proof of racism. I have no idea what you are talking about?

@Walkingdeadfangirl

In which case you are spectacularly ill informed about a party you would vote for or work with.

Nigel Farage would not work with Yaxley-Lennon because he considers him a racist. Or perhaps you know him as Tommy Robinson that is the name he used when he was working for the BNP?

Do I need to provide evidence that the BNP is a racist party? Would you vote for them, I assume they support Brexit?

This Gove? Well at least he acknowledges that No Deal is a grim prospect. May have abandoned his 2016 view that "We hold all the cards." Been failing for almost 6 months to get rid of backstop. Didn't May fight off a vote of no-confidence in Dec 2018, a month after Gove's big push started to excise backstop from WA? If fervour of conviction is what is needed to make Brexit happened, the evidence suggests that Gove also lacks fervour.

Windowsareforcheaters
I really dont want to descend into the pit of which politician is the most evil, so this is my last response and I am off this pretty disgusting thread.

So I can assume from that you would be happy to support or work with UKIP a party that is now the 'reasonable' face of the BNP
I googled Yaxley-Lennon and he is not in UKIP so you are misinformed. Also he seems to have went to one BNP meeting 15 years ago before leaving because he was disgusted with them. So, not going to condem a man on your say so, with zero proof.

Just today I watched David Lammy say on live TV that leavers are worse than Nazis. And yet you are happy to vote for the party he is in. I find your hypocrisy awful.

Brexit heralds the rise of the far right and people like you are facilitating one of the most worrying trends in British politics
Its the lack of Brexit that is facilitating the rise of division and discord in our country. So take a long hard look at the hatred you are fuelling before you blame people for casting a democratic vote.

Enjoy your leaver bashing, goodbye.

Pile on Clav time is it mean girls?

^Constitutional Politics. Well that's not the UK is it?

The lack of a codified constitution just makes it more interesting. It's a shame you aren't prepared to accept the challenge when you are happy to fling the insults. Pretty typical though.^

Yes windows it does make it very, very interesting - a subject that will continue to be discussed for a very, very long time. Quite a few of us irrespective of Brexit have a "nerdy, geeky" interest in the 'constitution' or 'not the constitution' of our own political system.

Good job it's the Easter Hols - otherwise we might think that your leading/teaching teenagers in debate skills are somewhat lacking.

Example:

Mnetter: How did debating class go today love?
DC: Great Mum - Teacher windows said we should just tell them to Fuck Off.

Just today I watched David Lammy say on live TV that leavers are worse than Nazis. And yet you are happy to vote for the party he is in. I find your hypocrisy awful

Funny

I watched exactly the same interview and he didnt say that at all

Can you please link to the relevant bit?

I would hate to think id missed it...im fairly sure i didnt and either you werent paying attention or you are twisting what he actually said for some reason

Im happy to believe that I misunderstood...with evidence of course

A LABOUR MP who likened hardcore Brexiters in the Tory Party to the Nazis has doubled down on the comparison – insisting it is not “strong enough”

He totally said it. I was in gym and nearly fell off the treadmill! The man sounded manic tbh like he’d lost his mind - he was all over the place

Yes

Not quite what you said though is it walking

He was talking about the ERG and the alleged link with far right parties

First rule of laughing at others - you need to be able to laugh at yourself first.....

Thought I'd gonetobedtoo, i didn't but I am now.

If it helps, one of the things I really like about being me is that I'm one of the best idiots I know.

your overuse of the word fact is becoming a bit tiresome.

For fuck's sake. What the fuck is wrong with you people?

And not one of you has answered my question about your vision for a post-Brexit Britain. Is it possible that the answer is a big fat we have no fucking clue because we don't know what the fucking fuck we're talking about? Go on, is it??

After all this time and a zillion threads about Brexit, I think we're finally getting to the heart of the problem.

It’s nothing new matt, it’s always been aspirational, woolly stuff from Leavers.

I just rather hoped that now the only viable options have been made much clearer, reality might have sunk in.

But no.