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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask what Leavers are still hoping for from Brexit

386 replies

Bearbehind · 13/04/2019 12:02

So we’ve failed twice to actually leave the EU on the dates specified which has hopefully proved that we will never leave without a deal.

Therefore the only option is to leave with a worse deal, or just give the whole thing up as a bad idea.

What do Leavers think can be salvaged from this epic mess?

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Bearbehind · 14/04/2019 20:47

Tell me one time has TM told to EU to get lost?

She hasn’t because she knows she can’t.

That’s why we didn’t leave without a deal.

We don’t hold any cards, we never did.

And if you honestly believe a different PM can change that then you are sadly deluded.

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Windowsareforcheaters · 14/04/2019 20:48

If someone is crowing

Wow you're touchy.

Crowing = definition "express great pride or triumph, especially in a tone of gloating satisfaction"

Yes look at me I have a degree and some elements involved constitutional politics. People usually laugh and call me names but in a tone of triumph I am going to gloat about my extraordinary knowledge of the British constitution. Look at me in wonder and fear as I explain the wonders of the British constitution. Kneel down as I explain how the German Supreme Court is different to the U.K.

Or you could fall asleep. Most people do.

Really, this is the only time in my life anyone has asked me questions. I'm living the dream because of Brexit.

ContinuityError · 14/04/2019 20:48

If someone is crowing about their expertise - and I have a question - why not?

So ask them a question. Directly. Like using their name for instance.

lljkk · 14/04/2019 20:50

EU are on verge of begging us to leave. It's T-May who begged for UK to stay! And the Queen got called a traitor for allowing the delay. EU is fed up. EU want UK to make decisions on how to leave, but not force UK in any direction.

Given Uk inability to organise selves, EU are being adults by insisting on Irish Protocol ("backstop") as insurance to protect RoI & UK. UK is showing self incapable of ensuring UK keeps abiding by GFA.

Bearbehind · 14/04/2019 20:56

It it literally like Leavers and Remainers see completely different things here.

Only the EU, and most of the rest of the world see things from the same view point as Remainers.

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Clavinova · 14/04/2019 20:58

clavinova we could have enforced rules on benefit entitlement and duration of stay, we just never bothered

Does that mean - if we stay in the EU - I can't retire to Italy, France or wherever - willy-nilly after all? What a disappointment.

Peregrina · 14/04/2019 20:58

Its very simple TM has betrayed our country.

Yet back in October 2016 at the Tory Conference with her Citizens of Nowhere they couldn't get enough of her. May hasn't changed one iota, so the perception of what she is about must have done.

I thought we only had control over non-EU immigration.

We could have limited immigration from the Eastern bloc but Blair cocked that up. We could even now, as other countries like Belgium do, throw other EU citizens out if they are not self-supporting or employed after three months, but we don't even keep proper records of them, so we don't do that. Meanwhile, non-EU immigration has increased. All fairly basic information, I would have thought, and I would expect a Leaver posting here to know this.

It [WA] creates a framework within which people and businesses in the UK and EU can plan what to do - without causing unnecessary hardship.

It doesn't do that. It provides some guarantees like the Irish backstop, but other than that is only the agreed starting point of what would be years of negotiations. If negotiations with other countries are typical, seven to ten years worth of talks are the likely outcome.

And if a new leader can't get us out of the EU then we need to elect a parliament who will. I have no doubt that a Brexiteer PM could piss off the EU so much that they beg us to leave.

Well, get Parliament to call for a GE - even with the Fixed term there are ways round it - a vote of No Confidence would do the trick. Do remember though that May called a GE with her plans for Hard Brexit firmly in mind, and didn't get the 100 majority she confidently expected but lost her small but working majority completely. So good luck with your elections getting the Hard Brexit Parliament in place. If you are at all involved with politics and go out canvassing, you will find that most people are sick and tired of Brexit - the country has other problems the Government needs to be getting on with.

Clavinova · 14/04/2019 21:01

So ask them a question. Directly. Like using their name for instance.
My post was the next one down. Confused

SodaPoppins · 14/04/2019 21:02

Amazingly, given Corbyn's abysmal personal approval ratings, a slew of polls from the last few days suggest that Labour would be the largest party if a GE was held now.

That mainly seems to be a result of the Brexit Party and UKIP splitting the right-wing vote.

If there's a GE soon, don't expect a Tory PM.

Peregrina · 14/04/2019 21:07

If there's a GE soon, don't expect a Tory PM.

Personally, I would expect yet another hung Parliament. It would be up to May/her successor as the incumbent Government to have the first attempt to form a Government, but who knows how successful that would be.

I am hoping that the results of the Local Elections will give some clues as to the mood of the country now. This does have to be interpreted with caution though - it's not always a guide to how the country would vote in a GE and Scotland, Wales and London aren't voting in May.

ContinuityError · 14/04/2019 21:09

My post was the next one down.

You quoted my post. Which usually suggests it’s a response to whoever posted.

If you have a burning constitutional question, then go ahead and address someone directly.

Clavinova · 14/04/2019 21:13

We could even now, as other countries like Belgium do, throw other EU citizens out if they are not self-supporting or employed after three months, but we don't even keep proper records of them, so we don't do that.

Just googled - it seems we can't deport homeless EU citizens;

"In response to a European Parliament question from Danish MEP Ole Christensen, Vera Jourova, the Commissioner for Justice, Consumers and Gender Equality, confirmed that EU citizens have a right to live in other EU countries “irrespective of whether they are homeless or not”.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-home-office-deport-eu-citizens-homeless-rough-sleeping-european-commission-a8023896.html

Windowsareforcheaters · 14/04/2019 21:13

My post was the next one down

Don't you worry about me @Clavinova. I will spend days searching for your points and answering the questions you can't be bothered answering.

Me and my 'expertise' are at your beck and call anything you can't be arsed doing I will look at all the posts around yours and search out any questions you might feel I need to answer.

Or you could just fuck off and answer it yourself.

I can't decide Hmm

Clavinova · 14/04/2019 21:19

ContinuityError

You didn't declare yourself to be the expert on constitutional politics - unless you are using different usernames?

The matter I queried was copied from early this morning - I didn't think I needed to mention the poster's name.

Clavinova · 14/04/2019 21:22

Or you could just fuck off and answer it yourself.
Charming.

Actually - I'm just off to watch tv instead. Brew

Peregrina · 14/04/2019 21:25

Just googled - it seems we can't deport homeless EU citizens;

You missed the bit about longer residence essentially requires that the EU citizen is economically active, or, if not, can show sufficient resources not to be a burden on public funds and comprehensive sickness insurance.

So someone who comes here, with a bit of money behind them for three months rent to try their luck, and then finds that they can't find a job could be sent home when the money runs out, could be sent home if we chose. Someone who was holding down a job but because of the mess the housing market is in now ended up homeless would still be supporting themselves so couldn't just be kicked out as the Home Office is doing. (But then the dysfunctional HO would kick everyone out if they could.)

How many homeless are EU citizens I wonder? I strongly suspect the vast majority are UK citizens, some of whom have alcohol and mental health issues, but others have been hit by the housing crisis. Another problem we need to tackle but aren't doing, and aren't likely to whilst the present hard faced Tory Government with a Cabinet stuffed with millionaires isn't going to.

ContinuityError · 14/04/2019 21:25

Clavinova You keep playing those games my love.

Personally, if I have a question for someone, then I address them directly.

SodaPoppins · 14/04/2019 21:26

Personally, I would expect yet another hung Parliament. It would be up to May/her successor as the incumbent Government to have the first attempt to form a Government, but who knows how successful that would be.
On current polling, we could see a labour majority. On the one hand, polling is quite fluid currently, on the other, it's hard to see how the Tory decline will be arrested.

I certainly don't think the Tories would have any real chance of improving their current position, and they can only just about scrape together a government now.

Best result for Remainers would likely be a Labour minority government (likely coalition partners would demand a 2nd ref).

Of course, this is almost certainly hypothetical as, with the polls as they are, I don't think the Tories would want a GE any time soon.

Peregrina · 14/04/2019 21:26

Sorry, a sentence got repeated there for some reason.

Windowsareforcheaters · 14/04/2019 21:34

@Clavinova

You are seriously suggesting I search through your posts to answer questions directed at you! And you think I'm being rude for telling you to fuck off!

The matter I queried was copied from early this morning - I didn't think I needed to mention the poster's name

I think the MN term is CF - as in stop being one.

Bearbehind · 14/04/2019 21:36

clavinova you can hardly blame people for being gobsmacked at your lack of knowledge on a subject you regularly post about.

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Peregrina · 14/04/2019 21:37

I don't think any of the political parties want a GE right now. They cost money and they are all strapped for cash - and there seems to be no certainty about who would win.

The Local Elections are a bit different because they can plan for those - they know when they are happening.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 14/04/2019 21:38

She hasn’t because she knows she can’t.

Ah remainer anecdotes, aka Project Fear. A Brexiteer PM would have had no problem telling the EU to get stuffed. Unfortunately TM was a sheep in wolves clothing.

The people who voted leave haven't went away, Brexit will happen eventually. Get rid of remainer MPs and then the Brexit party + UKIP + Tory democrats and we will leave the EU.

Bearbehind · 14/04/2019 21:40

The people who voted leave haven't went away, Brexit will happen eventually. Get rid of remainer MPs and then the Brexit party + UKIP + Tory democrats and we will leave the EU.

Until you move into the real world, this discussion is clearly pointless.

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Windowsareforcheaters · 14/04/2019 21:40

@Walkingdeadfangirl

Do you support UKIP? What are your opinions about Yaxley-Lennon?

Any issues with joining with a right wing party with racists leading it?

I know many leavers are NOT racist so how do you feel about working with racists?

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