Why is there such a huge discrepancy between the school day/school hols and the majority of workplaces

[Lifeisbeaut]

Just returning to work after a career break and trying to work out the logistics of school pick ups, how to manage school holidays whilst minimising the children being passed from pillar to post without routine. It’s not manageable or affordable.
I wish more employers offered term time only or proper part time options. I feel like what’s the point in going back to work when I will barely see my children and I’m barely bringing much more money in. Whoever said we could have it all was lying (unless I am missing something?)

Sorry you chose to have children and chose to return to work. You must have known how it would impact from when you worked before having children, so don’t start moaning now

It's not like people have spent the last 80 years doing exactly the same.

Oh, hang on...

Ffs even if you do look at school and the holidays like a train hurling towards you, even if you’ve planned bought a house with room for an au pair, got an ofstead registered nanny, gone part time, left work. Things can still change to mske all that planning redundant

It's not possible to have it all. I found it a bit tricky juggling 2 children in different authorities and me working in a 3rd authority (I'm a teacher). We all had different holidays.
The business world will survive perfectly without mum's I'm afraid. The issue in this country is more affordable childcare.

@riceuten

Are you saying because things have been this way for 80 years that makes it fine?

Is now the right time to humble brag that my employers allow me to work term time only although I realise I am very lucky indeed it would be nice to see it offered a bit more. It’s obviously unpaid leave but to have the option to have just a few weeks off unpaid a year would be highly beneficial for both parents (mothers and fathers)

What we need is for all the structures that made a society where men could succeed at the expense of women to be reorganised to support people, irrespective of their gender.

That means norms need to change so that men are better able to take parental leave, work flexibly and support childcare and chores. It means encouraging better gender balance across all sectors so women are no longer the defacto choice for leaving the workplace because they earn less. We need equal gender representation in our parliament to ensure that our needs are represented in laws and policies.

Nobody can have everything, that notion was ridiculous from the start. But men need to take some of this shit, and we should not give up on demanding to live in a world that doesn't fuck us over from the start.

That means norms need to change so that men are better able to take parental leave, work flexibly and support childcare and chores. It means encouraging better gender balance across all sectors so women are no longer the defacto choice for leaving the workplace because they earn less. We need equal gender representation in our parliament to ensure that our needs are represented in laws and policies.

There's no evidence to support that this is actually what people want.

I don't accept the argument that we have to put up with an unsatisfactory situation because it's been like that for 80 years. Imagine if people had said that about women getting the vote (I know many did). I also don't understand the connection between better integration between education and childcare and people wanting to only work 9-3. That's confusing the problem with the solution (if we didn't have to work with a rigid primary school system, there'd be more flexibility all round). I also don't agree the workplace can 'do without mums'. It's as short sighted to write workers off by parental status as it would be to be ageist or racist. We have a lack of skilled labour in this country, not a surplus.

In a society that actually valued children as the future of the society, rather than seeing them as a lifestyle choice made by individual parents I think a lot could be done:
School year could be restructured so that holidays are more evenly spread over the year (more, shorter breaks). Also benefits children (learning gap over long summer break seriously disadvantages many).
Employers could be more flexible- many jobs can accommodate much more flexibility.
Men could take on more responsibility for sharing the flexible work options so that it doesn’t all fall to mothers.
Government policy could encourage more flexible arrangements- eg offering companies financial incentives to provide job shares.
Government could provide better family support through maternity/ paternity pay, child benefits etc so that more parents could spend more time off work.
Employers could be more willing to employ and retrain older parents returning to work after a parenting break so that taking a few years out doesn’t spell the end of your career.

I remember as a child going to the hospital children’s centre as a child when mom was working. I also remember my dad’s company had a children’s centre but I liked the hospitals one more. It was basically onsite children’s care paid for straight from wages. I don’t know why companies can’t have something like that to help parents to work. Shirley the investment would pay for itself with the fact that parents have flexibility and can contribute more.

I also think there are changes that wouldn't cost much that could be made. One idea I had is that primary admissions could happen earlier, so that parents had (say) 18 months to reorganise their lives rather than 5. Posters saying 'but you knew school was coming' perhaps don't realise that in parts of the country the primary school system is so overwhelmed as to be almost completely unpredictable. Someone suggested on another thread that parents could be asked what wraparound they need at the time of admission (to establish the demand locally so providers could choose to supply it) and state schools could be required to publish detail of their wraparound (if any) and capacity/waiting lists. Govt could also loosen restrictions on childminders who just do pre/post school care. Parents could be enabled to express a preference for schools that work for their childcare or commute rather than it all being on distance/religion. There are quite a few tweaks to make if the will were there. Individual parents simply don't have enough reliable information for good decision-making at the moment.

Yes I think actually in the USA they seem to have more provision for out-of-hours childcare, particularly in some hospitals. They also have horrific maternity leave policies though so I’m not sure their system is something to be copied.

Parents could be enabled to express a preference for schools that work for their childcare or commute rather than it all being on distance/religion.

How do you see that sitting within the priority order?

How well the school supported working parents could become one of the criteria on which primary schools were judged by Ofsted.

So plus points for organising wrap around care and not randomly shutting at 230 on the last day of term and not having four weeks of half days for reception to settle in.....

I would get rid of religious admissions entirely, soup, but that would be another thread, wouldn't it?. I don't know much about the Scottish system, but I think I mean the equivalent of a 'placing request' could be made on grounds of childcare or commute. It would be up to individual admissions authorities where they prioritised it. It would be more relevant in some areas than others.

That means norms need to change so that men are better able to take parental leave, work flexibly and support childcare and chores. It means encouraging better gender balance across all sectors so women are no longer the defacto choice for leaving the workplace because they earn less. We need equal gender representation in our parliament to ensure that our needs are represented in laws and policies.

THIS. I could not agree more.

There's no evidence to support that this is actually what people want.

With all respect. Are you high? Why do you not want equality? Equality doesn't mean you HAVE to take up the opportunity, it's having the opportunity in the first place.

Shared parental leave is a joke. I'm fortunate I have flexi working but it took a long time to find a job with this ethos, despite having a job that can totally be done at home at any time. After having my dd I was astonished and disgusted at so many company's attitudes towards the fact I need to leave the office at x time and can't be in earlier than x because I do 50% of nursery runs and shock horror, want to have time with my dd.

It time to change the system. Its broken. People have to work, to feed themselves. Society has to have children, otherwise we'd be extinct. Despite other comments made to the contrary, the system should work better. End of.

Being a parent is more than just a lifestyle choice it's making a contribution to the society in a very fundamental and important way, it should be valued and respected, not something that disqualifies you from having a career and earning money

The "flexibility" I see demanded from some is schools to act as ersatz youthclub/babysitters for an additional 8 weeks per annum to save selfish, entitled parents with childcare arrangements and costs.

No-one ever seems to demand employers change the way they employ people and organise work accordingly.

This may sound too simple but isn't it up to the couple to arrange working around their children and not employers.
People round here alternate shift work, man or woman works days and the other nights. No childcare problems.
Or if a career woman find a man happy to be a sahp. Men can't have it all either unless they have a sahm.

Being a parent is more than just a lifestyle choice ... it should be valued and respected, not something that disqualifies you from having a career and earning money

People have to work, to feed themselves. Society has to have children, otherwise we'd be extinct. Despite other comments made to the contrary, the system should work better. End of.

Both of these. A million times over.

I’m appalled at the suggestions on this thread that having children, wanting to provide for them by working and questioning why it has to be so difficult to fill the gaps that this occasions makes someone ‘lazy and entitled’.

Ffs. Should I just pack it all in then and see what benefits I can get

The system doesn’t function well. It should be a top priority to get it working better.

This may sound too simple

Not too simple, just bizarre.

So we should be seeking out mates based on complimentary working patterns? Really? What happens if employers change their minds, let someone go?

As for career parent/SAHP, both my husband and I have worked hard to build careers that we love. Why should either of us give that up? How would we decide? Draw straws?

I work for a professional services firm and they let you work a% of full time, eg 80% so I work 5 days but have 12 weeks holiday. More and more firms are letting you do this, principally because August and Christmas are writes off for the city so they like people having holidays.

No-one ever seems to demand employers change the way they employ people and organise work accordingly.

Erm, have you read this thread?

Lots of people have been asking for that. And lots more have been saying why that’s totally impossible (which I don’t buy fully, but anyway).

Sure I have posted before the school of thought that the supply of labour has been boosted by mothers of young children going out to work. If they didn't, male and other female wages would be much higher due to poor supply and high demand of staff for all types of work. The higher payments would be enough not to have two wage households. Consider how many poorly paid jobs are associated with childcare alone nowadays. Have we made the rod for our own backs looking for fulfillment outside the family. Bit too late me thinks to change the system now. It's you can either afford children or not.