Why is there such a huge discrepancy between the school day/school hols and the majority of workplaces

[Lifeisbeaut]

Just returning to work after a career break and trying to work out the logistics of school pick ups, how to manage school holidays whilst minimising the children being passed from pillar to post without routine. It’s not manageable or affordable.
I wish more employers offered term time only or proper part time options. I feel like what’s the point in going back to work when I will barely see my children and I’m barely bringing much more money in. Whoever said we could have it all was lying (unless I am missing something?)

All these trained, educated women making do/trading down jobs/not seeking promotion/leaving the workplace entirely (and being told whatever decision they make is selfish) is a massive waste of human capital and reduces tax revenue at a time the UK can ill afford it. We cannot fix this system until we look at our crappy double standards.

Thanks for putting this better than I did.

@SoupDragon why is it irrelevant?

This whole thread is basically the glass ceiling in action.

My friend teaches in a farming community the older children disappear at harvest, calving and lambing time.

justasking111 - do the parents get fined ?

I don't like how 'having it all' is something aimed solely at women.
If men equally shared childcare and holiday and it wasn't seen as solely the women's responsibility then this wouldn't be such an issue.

FairPlay @Smoggle posts really made me laugh

men get to have it all, have progeny and the status and life satisfaction that comes with having a job and earning a living, why should women be the ones who take the hit in order to be a parent?

The advent of home working has made this easier, plus more options for working on a contract basis. It makes life simpler of both partners flex a bit though as expecting a mum to do all the childcare makes it a lot harder.

Problem with a lot of part time jobs is they want people who can be fully flexible, and working parents want hours that fit around school hours and there's very few jobs that will meet you halfway.
I'm lucky that my son's school has a breakfast club which starts at 7.30 and I start work at 8.
Holidays don't work out very well though, schools are off for roughly 17 weeks per year but businesses only allow around 4 weeks of holiday to employees so it's not easy for working parents.
Not blaming the schools or businesses, they'very got guidelines to follow

They've**

Stupid phone!

Haven’t read the whole thread but school day / year has always been a bugbear of mine! The law on it was made in the 1940s - not like much has changed in the world since then 🙄🙄

I have a very non-family friendly job. I make a big point of advising my DS’s not to make the same mistake! If everyone with children does this eventually workplaces will have to adapt. The other important factor is to choose a partner who will take equal responsibility for parenting duties. I have seen working mums on their knees because their partners leave everything to them. Not acceptable. Parents need to work as a team.

men get to have it all, have progeny and the status and life satisfaction that comes with having a job and earning a living, why should women be the ones who take the hit in order to be a parent?

Men can only have it all if their wives enable it.

OP do become an employer and change the system. Once there, you might find that market forces + the availability of a workforce that is not beholden to young children change your world view, but it's certainly worth a shot.

Because school is for the benefit of the child, it it is education not unpaid childcare.
Children get tired there is only so much they can take in in a day. and techers need to have some planning time. Teacher's days do not end when the school day does, they still have to prepare lessons, mark etc

A lot of this would be eased if fathers automatically went part time and not just mothers. If all parents switched to a four day week sorting school holidays would be much easier, and families would actually spend time together. (Imagine that, real balanced parenting?!)

But current work hours are not in anyway family friendly, so many jobs expect you in at 8, 8.30 and to leave at 5, 5.30, which is far too long and means children are in childcare from 7, 7.30 - 6+. It’s nuts. It’s not good for productivity, morale or our children/family function.

School is not for childminding.
When I was retraining - to be a teacher - my husband worked from home, self-employed, so that he was available to look after our children either side of the school day and so he could attend their school events. We took a serious hit financially and just got on with it.
As the children got older we used the school's breakfast and after-school clubs which cost a fair bit.

DH and I jointly parented. He took them to nursery/school breakfast club and I collected from after school club. We both make changes to our career plans to ensure that we were not working 12 hour days (DH changed from working in A&E to becoming a GP and I took a sideways move as a management consultant to work more from the UK and less overseas). We both took time off work when DC’s were ill and for school holidays. We don’t have any family in the UK so used school breakfast and after school clubs and local holiday clubs. When DC’s were teenagers they flew to spend some of the holidays with grandparents and cousins.

We shared the “home admin” DH was as capable as I am to know when DC’s needed new school shoes, dentist appointments, presents for birthday parties etc. I’ve always worked full time as has DH. It’s hard but jointly it’s not impossible. DC’s are at Uni now and seem to have successfully survived the choices we made as to how to run our work/home life.

I couldn't run my business if people only worked term time and school hours. The business world doesn't run to a school timetable

Me neither. My company's busiest time is in the summer and I can't afford for more than one member of staff being off each week. I employ a number of parents and cannot cope if more than one person is off at any one time. It is also really unfair on the people with older children or no children to assume that they will always be available when parents don't want to be. I was married to a teacher for 20 years. If I couldn't take some time off sometimes in school holidays then I never would have seen him, let alone have a holiday with him.

The idea of an army of temps is utterly ridiculous as well. It takes years to train in my profession. A university student is not going to cut it.

Having worked for quite a while in the NHS, I have to say that a lot of their jobs are accommodating TTO. Therapists, doctors and more recently, admin.
The whole of the economy cannot sustain the Term Time Only system (let alone the Consultants/Paediatricians whose children are in Private Education - with much shorter terms)
Although their expertise is more expensive the accessibility within the community is limited as the HCP's are able to define their working year in accordance with their personal circumstances. BECAUSE- they earn more in a week than most parents can earn in a month. Also - as it was described to me - it is an investment in their family's future - they have to go back to keep up with their profession. Some have it hard . . .. . . (But these guys have been to Uni and Med School - they have struggled at the other end of the scale)

Our economic model depends on children being born. Other people’s children will fund your pension via tax, wipe your arse in the nursing home and treat you in hospital

But this isn't about paying for their education, nhs care etc. This is about paying for their parents to have someone to look after their child while they work. Sorry but that's nit my responsibility.

Parker, see I would say that your post shows you can’t have it all (I do appreciate you never said you could) as you both had to make changes to your career plans. I know lots of HCPs, especially doctors who have had to move out of acute care as the hours as simply not compatible with family life.

If I genuinely picked what I wanted to do as a HCP (and I am more than qualified for it) I simple could not do the hours without my DH changing career or moving closer to grandparents. No way could both of us be in the specialties / areas we wanted to.

I wish more employers offered term time only or proper part time options.

How would that work? Employers need their businesses to function all year round, or they will collapse.
Surely you were aware of this before you decide to have children?

While I understand that this isn't the point of the thread, but to all the people saying that childcare shouldn't be a surprise when you go back to work... I agree:

But... it was a surprise when I had twins, and it was a surprise when my husband (who would have done the majority of childcare while I was in work) left me and refused to help physically or financially with said childcare.

I work shifts that run from 7-7.30 either night or day. No wrap around childcare cover this so I've had to go part time and have lost a huge chunk of my salary and gained a huge childcare bill for the nanny I now have to employ.

I don't know of anyone who uses school as free childcare but clearly knowing that the kids are there for 6 hours a day does make organisation during school time easier and childcare out of term time harder. What makes it more difficult for me is that school holidays tends to be when we are most busy, so have restricted holidays. It really hard to keep afloat sometimes.

You can have it all.

IF you earn enough. You need to have a household income that allows you to afford a nanny or childcare for those extra weeks.

I work full time and have a nanny from 1pm (youngest does half days in nursery now and elder has just started school). So my kids are minded in their home with their own toys and they are not being picked up in the dark at 6.30 and getting shunted off to bed.

It’s been an absolute game changer for me (my eldest has just started school) and before this they were both in nursery.

The kids are calm when I kick back in at 6 or so. They’ve been home playing with their own stuff. It’s really different to the household stress of us all getting home after 6.

Unfortunately its costly but I’m managing and I am delighted it’s money WELL spent. My nanny deserves what she earns.

And in time the hours will become less. Playing the long game etc...

Totally get your frustration. The world of employment needs to adjust.

all these employers that dont want to work around school times seem to forget that without people bringing up children and sending them to school there would be no new people to employ

they all benefit from an educated work force but dont want to accommodate the fact that people have child care duties

I've tried telling my patients that they're only allowed to need me in term time between 9 and 3, but for some reason they can't seem to manage this