Why is there such a huge discrepancy between the school day/school hols and the majority of workplaces

[Lifeisbeaut]

Just returning to work after a career break and trying to work out the logistics of school pick ups, how to manage school holidays whilst minimising the children being passed from pillar to post without routine. It’s not manageable or affordable.
I wish more employers offered term time only or proper part time options. I feel like what’s the point in going back to work when I will barely see my children and I’m barely bringing much more money in. Whoever said we could have it all was lying (unless I am missing something?)

Why just 3 hours a day?

You said from 1.30-4.30.

Unless these "specialists" are meant to be lunchtime supervisors, then art/PE/drama/gymnastic specialists, then cook tea and supervise homework

In my experience this is where the public sector is much better for working parents. My friends who are GPs, teachers, police, civil servents etc have had no problem dropping to part time once having children without it impacting on their progression. They also have been able to job share/flexi work/wfh/condense hours/more unpaid leave etc depending on the role.
My company offered me a 9 day fortnight when I requested to go p/t & no flexi working. I now am p/t in a educational setting 42 wks of the year, so much better!

When my child is in school I want him taught by a properly trained and qualified teacher.

When my child is in school I want him taught by a properly trained and qualified teacher.

I was just wondering what parents would think of outsourcing the afternoons to specialists. I can't see it being a popular or sustainable idea. Specialists would soon be replaced by cheaper staff, perhaps apprentices or zero hour contracts to help reduce costs.

I get the impression cover supervisors are sometimes used to replace substitute teachers

But where are you going to find all these specialists to cover every single class in every LA for 3hours a day, 5 days a week? With the best will in the world I don’t think you can find that many specialists and expect them to be specialist.

I think I’ve lost track of how many staff are being employed in the afternoons too. The 1 form entry primary is now employing :
7 teachers all doing PPA
some TAs doing interventions,
7 specialist people doing arts and crafts,
Some people being employed to do the 4.30-6pm, who are possibly working all afternoon, depending on the shift patterns if necessary (there could be some overlap between the TAs and specialists here)
Catering staff to provide dinner.

I’m trying to imagine the AIBU complaining about teachers only working a 3 hr day and getting the whole afternoon paid for PPA every day.

Lazy bastards

How are all these non-teachers going to manage with all the children with sen. Those children already sometimes get barred from extra curricular stuff, especially with outside providers. I can see the same happening in this set up.

Cover supervisors are usually used to fill in for absent teachers (illness, trips).

My DCs primary school has very good wraparound provision & a wide choice of clubs that start after school; ballet, gymnastics, football, tennis, drama, cooking, ICT, art, etc. I think they are run by a variety of people so outside specialists, teachers with particular expertise, & maybe some TAs?

Clearly not all jobs are amenable to more part time, term time only, flexi etc, but I think more are than are considered. Not least because it used to be more common than it is in some sectors. 10-15 years ago, as a student, I had summer jobs in retail and also NHS admin, while term time only staff weren't there. This seems much less common now, but it worked well enough then. I don't think something has to translate to every single role including those with the greatest seniority and expertise for it to be worth giving thought to.

It didn’t used to matter because there was always one parent, usually mum at home not working. The school holidays are no longer fit for purpose.for most families.

Rafals, you've forgotten that the catering staff have to pop back to make tea and supervise homework!

There seems to be a massive assumption that non parents would be happy to work the unpopular hours. I don't have children. I work 8am-4pm, the rest of my team (with children) work either 9am-5pm or 12pm-8pm. My hours were set before moving to this role and I only agreed to the change if I kept my hours and level of flexibility.

I would have to give up the hours I want in order for someone else to have them as someone needs to be there after 4pm.

I also take leave in the school holidays as I have nieces and nephews. Either to support with childcare or go on holiday with them. They are my priority and I ensure that I always have this booked well in advance.

Unless these "specialists" are meant to be lunchtime supervisors, then art/PE/drama/gymnastic specialists, then cook tea and supervise homework
Sure, why not? Plenty of TAs already do breakfast club, lunch time supervision, run clubs and do after school care (including making beans on toast!) to increase their hours/wage. Lots of TAs have skills in sports, languages, art, coding.

Of course they do, but they're not specialists! Nor are they expected to ( or shouldn't be expected to) take whole classes. There is a difference between running an after school club for a dozen children for half an hour a week and teaching a curriculum subject for 30 children for the year.

My workplace used to be really good about offering term time only contracts. The problem now is that all the people who got them 15-10 years ago are still on them and don't want to change. We have people working on term time contracts whose kids are now almost 30 and no one else with young kids can get them approved as the business needs wouldn't be met.

I was trying to work that out spanieleyes.

I hadn’t counted the lunchtime catering staff. The dinner time catering staff are separate to the staff supervising the 4.30-6pm. I’m just not sure if they are different to the lunchtime catering staff.

I doubt non parents would necessarily be up for unpopular hours, but there've certainly been times in my life when I was keen to work the school holidays. I also spent my first four years as a parent actively attempting to avoid taking any annual leave during school holidays. Much better used during term time when things were quieter and travel cheaper!

I wouldn't worry, smoggle has them multi-tasking!

Rafals - usually the after school club staff provide food, I've never known one have specific catering staff.

What do you think the 'specialists' currently working for PPA cover companies do? They aren't qualified teachers either. One 'drama specialist' I knew had a somewhat related degree (English lit) and some am dram experience. She also covered PE when needed.

There seems to be a massive assumption that non parents would be happy to work the unpopular hours.

Exactly! Or people whose kids are grown or older.

So, these specialists are going ( in Primary schools) to cover everything except English, Maths, Science, History and Geography. So that's RE, PSHE, music, PE, art, drama, computing, MFL. They are going to follow the National Curriculum, provide specialist supervision for 30 children at a time as well as supervise lunch, tea and homework.

On a TAs wage!

I came up with it on a bit of a whim, but the more we've discussed it the more I think it's solves so many issues. Better work/life balance for teachers, flexibility for TAs to work full time or part time, range of activities available to all children, better quality contact time with teachers focussing on the core subjects (drop everything else from the national curriculum and let schools decide how everything else is delivered), childcare available for all families.

Smoggle Genuine question but would these extra hours be paid for by parents / carers? If so the uptake will be the same as it is currently. Those who need before and after school club care, are in vast majority of cases able to find it, whether though school or additional providers.