Why is there such a huge discrepancy between the school day/school hols and the majority of workplaces

[Lifeisbeaut]

Just returning to work after a career break and trying to work out the logistics of school pick ups, how to manage school holidays whilst minimising the children being passed from pillar to post without routine. It’s not manageable or affordable.
I wish more employers offered term time only or proper part time options. I feel like what’s the point in going back to work when I will barely see my children and I’m barely bringing much more money in. Whoever said we could have it all was lying (unless I am missing something?)

I think the standard school day should be longer, maybe 8.30-4.30, with breakfast and tea clubs payable by parents, maybe on an income related sliding scale.

If it’s finishing at 6, I’m not sure catering is necessary at tbh. You could probably manage with a French style goûter at 4ish then dinner at home.

I don’t think your basic premise is wrong, smoggle. An extended school day makes sense. BUt I think you’ve narrowed down the curriculum in a way that’s employing an awful lot of staff to cover the same periods of time.

Shouldn't school be about the needs of the children? Most schools around here offer breakfast/ after school clubs or there seem to be a lot of child minders doing collection. Most children I know seem knackered after school and others have after school activities they want to go to. I don't see what the problem is tbh...

And my concern would be that you have reduced the importance of so many areas to "add-ons" covered by unqualified and untrained staff.

I don't think the basic idea is wrong, private schools have longer days normally and have more sports, arts, music etc as a result (and longer holidays too) but I don't understand how its being paid for. If you extend provision, the state has to increase funds or parents have to pay and the reason a lot of schools outsource these things is because its more practical than employing staff.

Smoggle
I came up with it on a bit of a whim,

No shit!

but the more we've discussed it the more I think it's solves so many issues.

Haha

Better work/life balance for teachers,

Anyone that isn't a core subject teacher (English, math, science) has just been fired

flexibility for TAs to work full time or part time,

They can already do this

range of activities available to all children,

The activities that you have specified are already in schools with exception of ballet

better quality contact time with teachers focussing on the core subjects

Its an extra 0 hours (KS3) where I work and a reduction at KS4.

(drop everything else from the national curriculum and let schools decide how everything else is delivered)

Apparently by out of work ex teachers, that have formed companies to to fill a requirement that wasn't there.

childcare available for all families.

Well yes but at what cost, to other families and people?

Everyone I know who is or was a TA went into it as they had their own children and wanted term time working.
I am sure there are some TA’s who don’t or didn’t but I think the majority do.

Invisible Women - Exposing Data Bias in a World Designed for Men by Caroline Criado Perez has some fascinating insights.

There won't be a range of activities available to all children and there won't be childcare available for all families.

Boney - I'm talking about primary not secondary, as this is mostly about childcare. So don't worry about firing secondary teachers!
Most TA jobs are part time at the moment, 9am-3pm with an unpaid lunch. Extended school days would mean nearer to full time hours.

If you extend the school day where are you getting the money from to increase teacher wages? We work in directed time and are currently only directed for the school day plus about fifteen minutes either side to do duties.

Where does the money come from to pay me for two extra hours a day?

FYI- teachers are parents too. I drop my daughter off at nursery at 7.30 and pick up at 5. How the fuck would I manage an extended school day? I am just as fucked as everyone else in term time. But have the benefit of the school holidays without childcare worries.

Teachers don't need to provide childcare. They're too expensive anyway.

But where is the money to pay for the staff to provide the childcare?

You are aware that most schools are financially fucked? There are fewer and fewer TAs now- sometimes five across a whole school.

Where is the money coming from?

Where is the money coming from?

I asked the same hours and hours ago, but still no answer other than where ever it comes from now. Which for anyone working in education is hugely worrying, as we all know the current budget doesn't cover the basics in most schools.

Childcare needs to be much better funded in this country, as it is in other European countries. Higher taxes and a more robust approach to tax avoidance.

Smoggle
The whole idea seems selfish to me

• what about children who may need extra support (tutoring), they start at 5pm?
• the bit that is 'childhood', playing at home, childminders, grandparents
• increased hours at school would seem to put even more of a mental strain on young people
• most of the TA's at my childs school are Mums, the benefit for a lot of them is the extra time at home....

Who is paying for this?!

Yes, people are very selfish having children and needing to work. I totally agree.

I think societies need to decide if they need as many people working as possible or not in which case better funded childcare is needed. The current situation is a horrible mess.

Smoggle - not saying needing to work and have children is selfish, it's selfish to not take responsibility!

Education needs to be for children, not the parents benefit

I’m self employed and I get the work that when I’m employed takes 40 hours a week done in 5-7 per week from home. Most businesses are highly inefficient, if there is anyway you can save up 3-4 months salary and give self employment a go I’d thoroughly recommend it. I’ve not looked back

As for paying teachers for an extended day, the guy living next door, head of a department I believe is hanging by a thread mentally as it is. Surely there is a case for administrative support to take away marking, planning etc from teachers allowing them to literally just teach then an extra 2 hours per day ie a normal working day would be fine because there wouldn’t be the need to take work home

What about a longer lunch break, if that was protected? It would have the effect of pushing back the end of the school day without creating more work.

Too long a lunch break (at secondary anyway) is too much time to get into trouble. What is there actually to do in a long lunch break, unless you have teachers running clubs during them? (Which defeats the proposed purpose).

In France, there’s a legal structure called an association which is a bit like a charity / non profit. At my children’s schools all the sports / lunchtime / after school clubs, and many of the holiday activities are run by associations. Teachers don’t do any clubs / lunch or playground supervision etc - they are strictly teachers. The associations employ various “animateurs” to run the activities which vary from crafts to theatre to sports to IT. They don’t get paid much, but it provides some pt jobs for retired older women and sporty young men.

It works really well IMHO. Lunchtime at my DS2 primary school is 2hr15mins long - and the teachers are not expected to do any supervision at all.